Ex mormon partner

Is there a missionary initiative rn to contact inactive members via social media and put non-gospel-related info on Facebook?

2020.11.28 04:31 bobbyfiend Is there a missionary initiative rn to contact inactive members via social media and put non-gospel-related info on Facebook?

My partner and I have both received friend requests from a missionary who is serving in a place we lived until a few years ago (we're several US states away, now). This missionary sent us both requests. She accepted hers (I think? Or is just facebook-stalking this missionary to figure out what's up); he has several posts about nature, like about lizards, insects, plants, and animals, and how cool they are.
I haven't been active for six or seven years (I'd say I'm an ex-Mormon except I haven't tried to get my name removed from membership lists), but last time I checked, missionaries didn't use social media at all, except maybe a few using it for their mission activities. So of course I wonder if friends back in my former hometown, where I was last active in the church, gave some missionaries my name and this is a new... initiative? Or something?
Does anyone have any information on this? It seems bizarre and inexplicable that a missionary serving where I used to live, who was just starting high school when I left there, is now interested in being my and my partner's FB friends to share pics of insects.
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2020.11.19 16:40 KustomTiki Outside perspective on leaving. NonJW. If your struggling with doubts about leaving, or nagging fears after doing so READ THIS NOW.

This comment from another thread is worded so well It deserves sharing. This same point has been made here by others over the years but not better than this. Even if your not struggling with doubts it’s good perspective.
Thank you u/Crowded_Bathroom for adding your perspective to our community, and u/boredoftheborg for the original post, hope things get better for you.
Excerpt from OP and response.
u/boredoftheborg: I came here to tell my story. Currently PIMO trying to fade. I've spent a lot of time lurking on here and also jwfacts.com and decided to finally reach out for support (TL;DR) I’ve finally had enough. I’ve been trying to fade and I've been doing a lot of research. Part of me still believes some of it, it’s hard not to believe something you’ve been told for 23 years. When Coronavirus came and everyone started freaking out about Armageddon, it really scared me. I want to leave, I’m done with everyone telling me that disfellowshipping isn’t abuse, I’m sick of the religion and the elders and their backwards teachings and reasoning. But at the same time, I’m terrified of leaving and then dying if Armageddon does come.”
u/Crowded_Bathroom: Full disclosure: I am a lurker who is NOT an exjw. But I have some in my life who are very dear to me, including my partner, and I'm an excatholic (from a specific small insular group). I have joined a lot of these ex-forums because I am fascinated by people's experiences with deconversion, and I want to gain a broader understanding of how we Exes can learn from each other and lead happy, fulfilling lives after the traumatic experience of a worldview shift.
What I would say to you is this: Everyone leaving a group like this has the feelings you're feeling. But they're about other teachings. I was worried about catholic teachings. Mormons are worried about Mormon teachings. Scientologists are worried about scientologist teachings.
When I had this realization, it helped me gain some emotional distance from the specifics of my anxieties. It helped me embrace the idea that my emotional experience is real and universal, but that the actual religious teachings I was experiencing those emotions around were not necessarily real or true at all. After all, I have never worried about Mormon teachings. I've been happily non-mormon my entire life. I've never been a JW, and I have absolutely no emotional connection to the JW teachings that are so central to your lived experience. If you look around, you'll see almost everyone in the history of the world was doing just fine without staying on red alert for the JW-specific apocalypse you feel this nagging doubt about.
This is not to say that nagging doubt is foolish or easily dismissed. It's what anyone in your position feels while going through the experience you're going through. It's not specific to JWs at all. It's just frightening and embarrassing to change your mind. But it's also brave. I'm proud of you. Just from this little bit of information you have given, it sounds like you've been through some horrific things and you're doing something really hard to make your life better. Keep up the good work. It won't always be like this. You're at the very beginning of something that will continue to reward you.”
Full post here, it’s worth the read too:
https://www.reddit.com/exjw/comments/jwjpx4/will_you_kick_yourselves_if_armageddon_does_come/gcs3tqi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
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2020.11.17 13:30 readingrachelx Housewife highlights/Daily shit talk - November 17th, 2020

BEVERLY HILLS
"In the words of the wise Harry Hamlin, “What other people think of you is none of your business.”
While Hamlin may not get credit as the originator of the quote, it’s advice wife Lisa Rinna has been taking to heart of late. Although she’s been staying close to home since the beginning of COVID—“even thinking about getting my hair colored or my nails done is a big feat”—she’s also had her fair share of very public backlash for her reality-star role on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills during this time.
“We put ourselves out there. I put myself out there. That’s just part of the process, part of the production. But it [the backlash] isn’t easy at all. I think if anything, I’ve learned to not take anything personally. Harry always says that line and it really helps the girls and me. I tend to go back to that line a lot.”
Something else, Rinna says, that’s important for fans—and foes—to remember: Reality shows aren’t real life.
“My real life is my real life and the Housewives is a TV show. That is as basic of an explanation I can give everyone. I’m not playing a character, there is no script, but we are in front of cameras. I always like to call that out because, yes, I’m being Lisa Rinna, but it’s a heightened version of Lisa Rinna. That’s the best way to put it.”
Of course, pre-Housewives weren’t exactly the days of “Rinna lite.” From the time she left her small hometown of Medford, OR right after high school to pursue modeling, the now 57-year-old’s motto has always been “never say no”—and it’s a philosophy that’s parlayed into a rather secured spot in Hollywood as an actress, spokesperson, New York Times best-selling author and business-woman (her fashion collection on QVC has sold “into the millions” of SKUs). For her next project, she’ll take on the world of beauty for the first time with the launch of an eponymous line, Rinna Beauty, available for pre-order now with a Lip Kit and a planned expansion into skin care in the new year.
“It’s really been a long time in the making. I’ve always wanted to come out with something for lips, and it’s been at least 10 years in the making—maybe even more. It’s really funny, but I could never find the right partner to get into business with. I want to say there were five different times where I got really, really close to making a deal, and then something would happen and it would fall through. I kept thinking, ‘Maybe it’s not meant to be,’ and I would turn back to my clothing line and focus on that. I was going to let the idea go because it seemed like the universe was saying, ‘This isn’t going to happen for you.’”
But, as luck would have it, it did: “Just when I was going to let it go, this company came along,” Rinna recalls. “I was in New York at the time and I met with them and it felt right. I thought, ‘OK, this is positive.’ Everything kept happening and happening and happening…I went to the factory, I looked through all the product, we were close on creating the formulas and I kept thinking, ‘Well, I can’t get my hopes up because it’s probably not going to happen.’ Then, guess what? It did. It worked this time.”
Like a lot of things, COVID made it a bit more difficult to get the new line off the ground, as did Rinna’s self-described “extreme” level of perfectionism. “The fact that we were doing it during COVID made it challenging, obviously, and everything took so much longer. I can’t really tell how much longer it took, but it took a while. And I’m so specific in what I like—lip gloss and lipstick-wise, and even with my lip pencil—that I’m sure I’m part of what made it take longer. When you really start to get into it, you look at all the brands and colors you love, and then you’re inspired and you go from there.”
“We had many, many, many, many, many rounds, especially on the lip gloss because I like a certain texture of gloss and I don’t want any fragrance—I want it super clean. I like it a little more on the ‘substantial’ side, a little bit thicker. I think I drove everybody crazy there for a minute because I was like, ‘Now, can we mix number one and number two together, and see what that does?’ Sure enough, after about 10 times, we got it right and I could not be happier. The same thing happened with the lipstick. It was a bit quicker, but I also have a very specific lipstick formulation I like. Who knew there were so many different lipstick formulations? Let me tell you, it’s a lot.”
While the process to get the final product may not have been easy, an inherent love of beauty, which she says runs deep in the family, set the stage for this endeavor from early on. “Beauty has always been a big part of my life because my mom, Lois, who is a queen, has never, ever left the house without her makeup on. It was something that was really important to her. She only ever bought drugstore beauty, nothing high-end, but I always saw her take such good care of her skin. She would always have her hair and makeup done nicely, and she always had her lipstick on before she left the house.”
“Now, I’m very much the opposite of that. In my day to day, I’m pretty casual. I don’t wear any makeup, really. In my dance videos I post on social media, you can see what I really look like, which is a good representation of who I actually am in real life—especially during this time at home. My mom always said to me, ‘Why don’t you just put a little blush on? You’ll feel better. It’ll make you feel better, I promise.’ It’s so funny. We still have this running joke because now that she’s 92, God love her, there’ll be times where she’ll look at me and say, ‘Did I put too much blush on?’ And I say, ‘You did,’ and I’ll smooth it out a little bit for her. It’s this running joke we have that’s really cute.”
And then there her daughters, Delilah Belle, 22, and Amelia Gray, 19, whose modeling careers earned Rinna the resume addition of momager during the past few years. “The girls are cutting-edge. I think it’s accurate to say that they’re on the edge of everything! We love to share products. I’ve always had problematic skin, so I’ve tried everything out there. I had adult acne and the girls go through a bit of that, too; Delilah went through a patch recently with some acne and whatnot. I’m certainly able to help them in that area, and so we share all kinds of beauty products and all kinds of things. They turn me onto things, and I turn them onto things. It’s a really nice back and forth.”
“But I’ll try anything. There are so many great things out there. Right now, I love those LED face masks. I’m big on getting facials and lasers, and for the last eight months, I haven’t really gone to get any of that stuff. But maintenance is so important, and what we have available to us for anti-aging has come so far. Because we can’t really go anywhere, what I truly love at the moment is the Dr. Dennis Gross LED Mask—those lights are so great! They stimulate collagen and kill bacteria, and it just works. I love it. That’s my go-to thing right now because I can’t really go out and have the treatments I love.”
One treatment that she’s a bit more “tight-lipped” on: lip fillers (although she does hint that the next scheduled launch for her line is a lip enhancer, as well as an Alter Ego kit that plays off her different “alter egos”).
“I think we all know the story on my lips. I don’t think we really have to talk about it—it’s pretty much out there for the world. I think whatever anybody wants to do is cool. We have all these products and all these treatments, and at theend of the day, it’s all about feeling good about yourself. That’s really all I have to say about that.”
As for the one thing Rinna is doing to feel good about herself during these uncertain times: the popular dance videos she regularly posts on social media. “It makes me happy to do it. If it brings other people joy, then even better. It’s just a little break. From what I gather, people get a kick out of it. I get a kick out of it. It’s fun when you get to do something that makes you feel good and then makes others feel good. It’s a win-win. What else will I do? Who knows? I’m game for anything. You know me, I’m a hustler. I’ll try anything.”
NEW JERSEY
"In New Jersey court papers exclusively obtained by The Sun, Louie’s ex-fiancee claimed he engaged in “controlling and abusive behavior” towards her from when he proposed in February 2019 to October 2019.
In the lawsuit filed on April 15, which she later dropped on May 20, she claimed: “In October 2019, [Louie] abandoned [his ex] in Provincetown, Massachusetts and then padlocked [his ex] out of the [New Jersey] home that they shared.
“After some other instances of controlling, abusive behavior, [Louie] gave [his ex] various gifts to induce [her] to continue her relationship with [Louie].”
She claimed during their relationship, he formed a social worker company as a “gift” to her with the "representation" that she would have sole control over the business.
But she claimed the businessman “arrogated unto himself” sole control over the company.
She made the same accusations regarding the company’s website and business email.
The ex claimed Louie did this “with the intent to destroy and tortuously interfere with [her] business as a licensed social worker and to seek personal revenge against [her].”
She claimed his alleged actions regarding the business was done “with intent to cause [her] to suffer severe mental distress.”
The woman claimed Louie “threatened” he will “seek to damage her educational degree in social work and her license as a social worker.”
The court papers continued: “In addition, [Louie] has threatened [the ex] that he will contact her friends to damage her reputation.”
She also claimed he has “refused” to allow her to get her belongings from their former home.
The woman requested a temporary restraining order stopping him from having control over the business, website and email. She also asked for compensation and costs for attorney fees.
On May 20, the woman dismissed the lawsuit.
A rep for Louie did not immediately respond to The Sun's request for comment.
POTOMAC
ATLANTA
"Porsha Williams is on the mend after being hospitalized for undisclosed reasons.
Over the weekend, the Real Housewives of Atlanta star revealed on Instagram that she was back home after a health scare. And while Porsha didn't reveal what led to her hospital stay, E! News can confirm it's not because of COVID-19 or a pregnancy.
"Thanking God for everyday" Porsha shared on Instagram on Nov. 16. "Thank you for the blessing seen and unseen, past and future."
When one fan replied that she was keeping "you and your unborn baby in my prayers," Porsha set the record straight. "Ma'am," she replied, "I am not pregnant."
ORANGE COUNTY
"The Real Housewives of Orange County husband recently joined wife Emily Simpson for a fan Q&A on Instagram, and he didn't hold back.
First off, Shane offered some insight into his parents, and learned something new about himself, thanks to Emily. "I am not [Iranian], but my mom is 100 percent Iranian," he said before Emily clarified for him that his mother's heritage makes him half Iranian. "Oh, I am; oh, that's cool. I didn't know that."
Emily later confirmed during the Q&A that Shane even speaks Farsi. Another fan wanted to know if he has any grandparents (we assume the fan may have meant still alive, but the question was quite generally phrased). His response? "I was conceived in the lab. I don't have any grandparents," he said, before adding, "Doesn't everyone have grandparents?"
He then opened up about his life in high school when a fan asked if he was cool or not. "I don't know. I didn't have any girlfriends, does that answer the question?" he said, joking, "I walked around with a football all the time, though. It didn't work."
Fans were also curious about his life as a Mormon. He shared that his oldest daughter, Shelby, from his previous relationship, is Mormon as well, and that he attends religious services: "We went today [to church]. And my oldest daughter is on a mission. She was called to Peru, but with COVID[-19], she's now in the states [in Utah] waiting for it to open up."
He also confirmed that he does not drink alcohol. "No, I've never had an adult beverage. No [I never do] because I'm not much of an adult. I like juice boxes."
He later joked when asked again if he ever drinks, "No, I'm completely dehydrated."
Emily also revealed Shane's favorite hobby. "It's washing your car. He is obsessed with washing his car; he has a whole garage set up."
Shane agreed that he loves washing his car, confirmed that it doesn't bother him that Emily is taller than him, and made several comments about his crush on Carmen Electra during the chat.
And he also revealed his workout secrets, in case you were wondering: "Every morning I go to 7-Eleven and get a pack of powdered donuts and a Big Gulp, and I go to work."
NEW YORK
SALT LAKE CITY
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2020.11.16 23:32 AprilStorms B4B Butch is Not a Dirty Word (Flutter App Review)

Hey butches and those looking to meet them, I tried out that Butch is Not a Dirty Word online dating event. The app that hosted it is called Flutter, and they make an attempt to have it feel organic, like you’re scoping the room at an in-person event looking for cool people to approach. Events take place at a certain time of day. When the event first opens, you’ll only be able to look at profiles and swipe. After a certain amount of time, chatting opens and you can talk to people but at midnight all your matches disappear, to encourage you to move conversations off the app.
Neat setup, right? Here’s how it broke down:
Profile detail: 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈❌
I don’t think I saw anyone who straight up did not have a bio. Hallelujah! You can select up to three prompts to respond to (I liked the prompts!) but the character limits are pretty strict and I felt like I had to leave out important stuff. Other than the fact that this app may not be for me because I tend to get wordy, I like people to know upfront that I’d prefer to have more than one life partner. There wasn’t an option to indicate polyamory or other potential dealbreakers, just the three prompts. Maybe I’m just spoiled from Lex, but it also didn’t seem like you could write very much?
Queer inclusiveness: 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈❌❌
How do you have a butch-focused anything in 2020 without a quality nonbinary option? Not sure, but Flutter did it. The initial gender options are men, women, and other. I clicked other, it then prompted me to select man or woman after. (That part is pretty common for apps, so they know whether to show you to someone seeking men or seeking women.) So I went with woman, because I’m woman-adjacent/part-time girl/whatever. However, my profile didn’t show “othewoman,” or “other,” or even a space to write in “none gender with left sapphic.” It just showed “woman” which was kind of icky, but the field where you type your name allows parentheses and slashes so I and a few others that I saw put (they/them) behind our names.
Dating pool: 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈❌
The other events are pretty concentrated to major cities, so if you live in NYC this might be great. Otherwise, people were pretty spread out – I saw some from Canada and I’m in the US - which might be an issue for some of you. I’m trying to leave my current town for grad school anyway so I didn’t care much, but if you’re looking to find someone local, this app may not work for you unless you’re in NYC. I didn’t see any straight girls looking for friends or lesbian-fetish het dudes, so maybe they haven’t invaded WLW Flutter yet. But I did get messaged first a few times, right at 7PM Central when chatting opened. Also, butches hot.
Filters: 🏳️‍🌈❌❌❌❌
The only two I was able to find were age range and the gender you’re seeking. And I only figured out how to get to those because the page prompted me to loosen my filters after I went through the whole stack :/ (more points off from UI). It allows you to list your occupation, but you can’t filter profiles by it, nor for location, faith, smoking status, type of relationship, or other criteria.
User Interface: 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈❌❌❌
The timed events idea is intriguing, and since everyone was on at once I tended to get responses fairly quickly. Whenever I tried to add a sixth picture it would delete the fifth one and trying to drag them into the right order was kind of buggy too. But you could just scroll down to see the profile, you didn’t have to pull it up in a new window or press and hold or anything, which is nice. But how do you find the filters? Before the event, the homepage had an “expired matches” section, but afterwards it disappeared?
Tl;dr
If you’re in a major US city, you might have TONS of events (I saw one for ex-Mormons, NYC law students, etc). This might also be a good app for you if you keep forgetting to check your phone, want a break from always messaging first, or if you’re constantly on apps and want to tone it down to just one night a week. Your photos have to do a lot of the work of representing you since that character limit is so tight, so make sure you have some action shots of you baking/playing with your dog/rock climbing/etc. I might check in again if they hold another butch-focused event but overall, it didn’t quite work for me.
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2020.11.14 13:30 readingrachelx Housewife highlights/Daily shit talk - November 14th, 2020

NEW YORK
"An average week for Sonja Morgan, star of the Real Housewives of New York City, might begin with a nose job. They can do it now without any surgery at all: She says Ramtin Kassir just puts a little bit of filler to even out the bridge in profile. Her nose is a family heirloom — "The chicken face," she calls it. "It's a very signature family look." — charmingly but fiercely straight, in the manner of a young conservative politician. She looks nothing if not American.
Wednesday she's getting her eyebrows done with Victoria at the Julien Farel salon. She's been seeing Victoria for 30 years, back when she worked at the Frédéric Fekkai salon in Bergdorf Goodman. Then she followed her to Fekkai's salon at Henri Bendel. Remember Henri Bendel? But anyways she's at Julien Farel now, which is at the Regency. It is a gorgeous space, a symphony of beiges, but frankly, Victoria could be working at the bottom of the Mariana Trench and Sonja would plunge through miles of ocean to see her, because her eyebrows are sisters, not twins, but Victoria knows how to even them out.
There might be an interview, or a photoshoot, and on this particular Wednesday there might be both. There might also be a veneer cleaning. The rest of the week is still kind of up in the air. The doctor that did Morgan's nose on Tuesday wants to try something involving the exchange of nose cartilage, but Morgan still needs to Google it and do her research. (Morgan ultimately canceled the appointment.)
This year is Morgan's tenth as a cast member on the Real Housewives of New York City. The gist of the show is that a woman will convert certain aspects of her private life into public entertainment for the millions who watch the reality network Bravo (and the millions more who watch them online, follow them on Instagram, and tweet at them during tapings to demand explanations for their behavior) while also supporting a family and possibly working on additional business ventures.
Each Housewives cast assembles a sampler platter of rich, power-adjacent women of a particular American (or, at one moment in history, Australian) city, who then represent that city on the world stage in a kind of yearslong televised pageant. (Unlike the pageant system, there are no winners in the Housewives universe.) The women's backgrounds illustrate the particular ruling classes of each locality — Beverly Hills features a large contingent of Hollywood actors; many of the wives of New Jersey are of Italian descent. Many of New York's housewives have links to political oligarchy: the current Housewife and former countess Luann de Lesseps, the former Housewife and former Kennedy spouse Carole Radziwill. In 2006, Morgan separated from John Adams Morgan Jr., the great-grandson of J.P. Morgan and a descendent of presidents John Adams and John Quincy Adams. Four years later, she joined the show for its third season.
Before her marriage, Morgan was a model, who exported her classically American good looks abroad modeling Diesel denim in Milan. She made $150,000 a year working as a fit model, spending her time smoking cigarettes, and drinking Prosecco before returning to American shores to more or less do the same thing. The European people, according to Morgan, taught her how to look good and eat well and enjoy life. More specifically, they taught her to eat slowly at meals. "Enjoy the people you’re with in life," she says. According to Morgan, she and her ex-husband ate most of their meals "at home," presumably referring to their transcontinental network of real estate with outposts in Telluride, Provence, and New York City.
Say what you want about Sonja Morgan, but it is probably unoriginal and thus worth keeping to yourself. Her decade-long reality TV career is, if nothing else, a public library of human experiences, as Morgan's triumphs and non-triumphs are blended and presented as entertainment to an unrelenting audience. Not that Morgan needs for storylines: She is a hilarious presence on the show. At times she operates like a self-aware(-ish!) caricature of an Upper East Side socialite, hiring NYU undergraduates as interns to work around her townhouse, or getting too drunk prior to a gala, but she is a professional. She is ready to dance on a table if a table needs to be danced on, or openly divulge information of a carnal nature if it’ll make for a better interview. Morgan knows how to be consumed. She attempts to add spice wherever possible.
"People always want to know the crazy things I take," Morgan says. She is rummaging through some walk-in cupboard or nutrition wing of her Upper East Side townhouse, identifying her various supplements. Morgan is a radiant 56, having spent the last three decades fastidiously maintaining her appearance as a model and later as a television star. She credits this to an inside-out approach to beauty, literally, beginning with "poop pills." "If you're not going three, four times a day, you're not going to look great," she says. "Raquelle?" Raquelle is an intern. "What else do I take?"
Morgan takes calcium, magnesium, vitamins D and B12, prebiotics, probiotics, alkaline mineral water, electrolyte powder, collagen-based protein, cocoa powder — "It gets the endorphins going. You feel like you’re shopping. Or having sex!" — maca powder, taurine, guanine…
Morgan realizes this is a long list, so she edits to what she considers the essentials. “I can't stress enough this potassium, magnesium, calcium and [vitamin] Bs,” she advises. “And maca powder, which you can put in your shakes. And digestive enzymes. Very important.”
Also important: Sunday Riley Luna oil, applied at night to lure fresh cells to the surface of her skin, and SkinCeuticals C E Ferulic serum, which protects those cells throughout the day from the Upper East Side air pollution that threatens their radiance. Morgan is also refreshingly candid about her experiences with cosmetic surgery. She recently got a face and neck lift from Andrew Jacono, whose office sits nearly directly across the street from the Park Avenue Armory. "Over the years, I just got tired of the trout mouth," she says. "I did the threads twice, but it was just lifting the drapes. So I said, 'Let's do it' Even Dr. Kassir when I went to him yesterday, he was like, 'Well, we wish we did it,' you know? You've got to go to a different doctor for different things. Dr. Jacono does two face lifts a day."
Daunted by the cosmetic scrutiny that accompanies public life — or, perhaps, as a result of "just drinking a lot of water and getting plenty of rest!" — many Housewives adjourn a season of filming, only to return to the events of the next season with entirely different facial features, eyes distinctively more catlike, preposterously sized Hollywood lips where there once were Scottish-Welsh ones. Many of Morgan's features, including her jagged, patrician nose, look more or less the same that they did when joined Real Housewives of New York City in Season 3. Dr. Kassir has "been trying to do my nose jobs for years," Morgan says. The full monty, that is, in which the nose is renovated from within, as opposed to the molecule-sized monties she receives via injection. "But I told you, I like my nose. I've yet to meet a doctor who can give me a nose I like."
Beauty professionals of every stripe and order will approach Morgan about adorning her with their services. Morgan responds by tirelessly researching and isolating the procedure or style they do best, at which point she either decides to try it or wait until somebody even more talented comes along. She says Sharon Giese, a plastic surgeon whose office is just slightly farther from the Park Avenue Armory, is currently courting her about some belly laser. She’s thinking about it. Right now, the roster includes Jacono on the neck, Victoria Veytsman on her teeth, Kassir kind of on the nose, and dermatologist Rachel Nazarian for Botox and filler. “I can’t tell you how many people bring in pictures of Sonja,” Nazarian says. “They say, ‘Whatever she is doing, I want that.”
SALT LAKE CITY
"Heather Gay's friends may describe her as the "life of the party," but for her, it's just the role she has to play. "I consider myself an introverted extrovert that acts like the life of the party so everyone else feels more comfortable," the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City star tells Bustle, adding that she "kisses a lot of ass."
That's something you'll see her work on throughout the first season of RHOSLC, which premieres Nov. 11 on Bravo. "I really go along to get along until I kind of just get sick of it toward the end," Gay explains of what's to come, pointing to "some friction" with her costar and sometimes "sh*tty friend" Jen Shah, as well as the ongoing drama that "will never die" with her former BYU classmate Lisa Barlow. "Usually I would just put up with it because that's what I've always been trained to do. But I'm finally starting to say what I really want to say and how I really feel."
Heather is "totally single" after going through a difficult divorce with her husband of 11 years in 2015, though she says they now "get along fine." Her ex's grandfather was Howard Hughes' driver and inherited a large portion of the businessman's estate, which makes the Gays "Mormon royalty" who are "worth billions," Heather says. So it comes as little surprise that she's "always had an affinity for" RHONY's Sonja Morgan and relates to her divorce.
RHOSLC will show Heather navigating the dating world once again, and she has a clear idea of what she wants in her next relationship. "I'm looking for anyone who's completely inappropriate and damaged and under the age of 30," she jokes. "I look for love from the moment I wake up until the moment I go to bed. I just never find it."
Heather and her teen daughters — Ashley, 17, Georgia, 14, and Annabelle, 13 — are like "the four musketeers," she says. "They're 100% supportive and kind of caretake me as much as I'm their mom." With full custody, Heather is raising her kids on her own, while her ex "completely" financially supports them. "Our co-parenting is: I do the work and he pays the bills," she explains.
Don't expect to see much more of Heather's family on the show, though. She says her parents and siblings are "cool, wonderful people" who love and support her, but view her becoming a Housewife as a "betrayal of their faith." "They see endorsing this type of adventure as kind of patting me on the back, saying 'good luck on your way to hell,'" she says.
Though Heather was raised as a Mormon, she now describes herself as "Mormon-ish." She had a reawakening of sorts after her divorce and decided to stop attending church (which violates the compulsory attendance policy). "I've gotten to the point where I can't endorse doctrine that is completely opposite of how I feel, and I can no longer rationalize it " she explains, citing the Mormon church's stance on gay marriage and not allowing Black members to become priests. "How can I participate in a church that is absolutely discriminatory and says God loves all people, except for the gays? The doctrine is essentially that you can't go to heaven unless you're married, straight, and very, very righteous."
Still, Heather says she loves her community and believes it will always be a part of her identity.
After initially "doing photography and social media in exchange for Botox" because her ex-husband oversaw her budget, Heather began running the cosmetic medical practice Beauty Lab + Laser, which is now valued at over $20 million. She used money from her divorce settlement to join the company as a partner before totally buying out the business, which offers injectables, laser treatments, and skincare, among other services. Their goal is to allow women to invest in themselves without shame or stigma. "If you want giant lips, if you want a frozen face, if you want to be smooth like a dolphin without one shred of hair, we don't have any agenda other than to provide customer service," Heather explains.
Heather mostly posts about her friends and family on Instagram, though she says she's attracted her fair share of trolls. "The trolling is real, but it is nothing in comparison to the love and support," she says. "And it's very easy to ignore the trolls when you have such an amazing Housewife fan base, so I try to just focus on that."
She also uses social media to talk about social justice movements like Black Lives Matter. Pointing to the percentage of white women who voted for Trump in 2020, Heather believes it's more important than ever to use her position of privilege to stand up rather than look the other way — especially in Utah, which "doesn't have a super diverse" population.
Heather loves Britney Spears and considers her a national treasure. "I think her Instagram posts are simultaneously horrifying and endearing, and I think that is the type of human being that we need to cradle and treasure and empower because she's provided us with decades of entertainment. For her to now have a conservatorship is absurd. No one's beyond redemption and no one should be manhandled like that and micromanaged. I think if we let Britney free, we'll see what she can really do."
POTOMAC
ORANGE COUNTY
“I don’t even really know what [a ‘sloppy chihuahua] actually is,” Gina joked while rehashing the fight during an EXCLUSIVE interview with HollywoodLife, following last week’s episode. “I really am just a person that is very chill until I’m pushed to the limit. It takes a lot, but then I’m like, ‘OK, I’ve had enough of this.'”
Gina explained that Braunwyn “was quite sloppy all last year, which obviously I did not know [at the time that] she was struggling with [alcoholism]. I had no clue. I just thought she was [being] a sloppy chihuahua.” And Gina didn’t like the way Braunwyn revealed that she was an alcoholic during last week’s episode. Especially because it came immediately after Gina had heard that the mom of seven allegedly shaded her for buying a small, “sad” and “depressing” house. Plus, Gina was still upset about Braunwyn’s husband Sean sending her a “creepy” text message. So Gina felt Braunwyn was trying to overshadow Gina’s own feelings about the house diss.
Gina explained, “I think what everyone needs to understand is the way I was told, was not sitting down on a couch with a woman who is telling me that she has this issue [like she did with Emily Simpson]. She was just attacking me. I tried really hard to ignore her quite frankly because I heard her reeling me out with Shannon and I knew she was in a tornado and I really didn’t want anything to do with it and I felt like she was attacking me and I was just defending myself. And even when she said, ‘I’m 30 days sober, bitch!’, I was thinking in my head, ‘So what? You did a cleanse?’ Does that undo all the times you were drinking heavily last year?”
“But I always looked at Braunwyn with what she presented it as,” Gina continued, “‘I breastfed all of these kids, I finally weaned.’ It was her first year on the show and it was, ‘Oh, it’s her freshman year.’ She’s just partying. So I didn’t ever know that and I really didn’t get that until we were obviously outside. But then when we were outside, I thought we were talking about the fact that you’ve been non-stop launching this attack on me unnecessarily and then that’s when she wanted to [reveal her secret]. I’m not even her good friend. I didn’t even need to know that. So it was kind of — I think it was just really bad timing, but once she did tell me that, it is what it is. It’s what I said exactly. Look, I do have compassion for her. I’m proud of you if you really have a problem and you’re deciding to address that. That is very commendable, but I’m not going to compromise my integrity because you’re finally confronting this problem.”
Now that everything has happened and it’s aired on TV, Gina says she would have gone about the situation completely differently. To start, she wouldn’t have screamed at Braunwyn and called her a ‘sloppy chihuahua’. She told us, “I never would have yelled in a grown woman’s face — who just [was] 30 days sober after battling the majority of her life with alcoholism — that she’s sloppy and go get drunk. It’s horrible!”
Gina added, I have compassion about [her situation]. Who wants to see a woman going through that? But I wasn’t privy to any of that information.”
“After I watched last week’s episode, I did text her and I just said very simply, I just want you to know despite everything that’s going on I just want you to know I wish you and your family the best. I have been there last year. I’d say my family was in crisis mode. No matter what your issues are or how big your issues are, no matter how big or small your house is, it’s very hard. She texted me back and said, ‘Thank you very much. I appreciate it,’ and that’s it. The bottom line is if Braunwyn needed me as a friend, I would be there, but I think bottom line is, Braunwyn’s never considered me a friend and doesn’t have any interest in being my friend and that’s OK. It’s alright. It is what it is,” Gina added."
BEVERLY HILLS
"Teddi Mellencamp is joined by her dad John for their first-ever interview together on her “Teddi Tea Pod” podcast.
Teddi asks her musician father whether he’s happy she’s no longer on “Real Housewives of Beverly Hills”, to which he replies: “I’m terribly excited and happy that you are no longer part of the ‘Real Housewives’. I’ve never liked that you were on the ‘Real Housewives’.
“I tried to be supportive so I watched, but I can assure you I don’t watch it anymore.”
John continues, “I think that it’s great and I think that some of the women on the show are fantastic.
“But I don’t like people to know where I’m at, I don’t like people to know what I’m doing, I like to have privacy. That’s why I stick around my properties and don’t go anywhere."
“I don’t want to be a part of where everybody knows everything about everybody… I don’t know how you stood it,” he adds."
CHESHIRE
submitted by readingrachelx to RHDiscussion [link] [comments]


2020.11.13 22:14 jw_mentions /r/iamatotalpieceofshit - "As someone who used to be a JW, please help this gain more attention"

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EDIT: As of Sun Nov 15 18:00:55 UTC 2020, the post is at [2535pts49c]

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--- --- Notes
Submission As someone who used to be a JW, please help this gain more attention
Comments As someone who used to be a JW, please help this gain more attention
Author UnsettlingAura
Subreddit /iamatotalpieceofshit
Posted On Fri Nov 13 18:02:26 UTC 2020
Score 2535 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:55 UTC 2020
Total Comments 76

Post Body:

n/a - not a self post

Related Comments (49):

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Author Jouzu
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:24:39 UTC 2020
Score 19 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:08 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
Body link
Yep, they are eagerly awaiting the killing of 99.9% of humankind, only they will survive Armageddon. The birds will eat the flesh of the unbelievers I think, heck of a clean up job otherwise... Imagine the immense joy of washing through piles of dead kids, yeah, that is whatJWs hope for.
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Author kiwi_scorpio
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:50:45 UTC 2020
Score 150 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:10 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 13
Body link
I'm a nurse here in New Zealand and if a pregnant JW has to have a caesarean section we have to set up a special suction unit called a cell saver. We suction up their blood as they proceed with the surgery and it gets filtered and put back into the patient. I've also been in situations where a JW has said to the doctor in front of their family members that they don't want blood, but as soon as they are away from their family members they let the doctor know that in fact they will have whatever will save their life.
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Author sactownox22
Posted On Fri Nov 13 20:51:30 UTC 2020
Score 26 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:12 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 7
Body link
So, only 1.7% of the google-estimated total of 8.4 millionJWs worldwide get to the promised land? That is some stiff competition.
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Author Havamar
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:06:57 UTC 2020
Score 25 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:13 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
It's self-reported as "only they will know". They only have 144,000 seats in heaven available. The rest of the plebs are going to live forever on a paradise earth, after they clean up the 8 billion bodies after God kills everyone that isn't a JW at "Armageddon".
Any time I ever saw any "annointed" the other church members were talking behind their backs saying that they didn't really think they were.
It's kinda funny, and an oddly brutal belief system.
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Author arrian-
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:43:20 UTC 2020
Score 187 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:17 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 18
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well its not only with childbirth, theJW's have highlighted cases where children who need blood transfusions to live were taught to reject them by their parents because its "disrespectful to god"
their whole blood doctrine is complete bullshit, they say that you can't use blood because it represents life and if you *eat* blood you're disrespecting God's authority and disrespecting life. Which makes no sense, because if you respected life you'd give someone a blood transfusion if they needed it to live.
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Author YouDontKnowMe2017
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:37:50 UTC 2020
Score 13 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:18 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
They’re pieces of shit: https://www.npr.org/2020/01/09/795019348/montana-court-reverses-35-million-child-abuse-verdict-against-`jehovahs-witnesses`
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Author Vorian23
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:59:51 UTC 2020
Score 15 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:18 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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That’s exactly what they do https://freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-and-`jehovahs-witnesses`/
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Author cookingismything
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:15:42 UTC 2020
Score 30 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:19 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
I was never a JW but my husband was raised in the religion. My gut is saying the answer to your question is pretty simple. THEY DO NOT EVER WANT TO INVOLVE THE POLICE. You see, they take care of any little issues themselves. If there is a problem, you reach out to an elder or elders (those are the respected male leaders of their congregation) and they are so wide that they will know what to do. I’m so sorry for this young girl. My husband knows so many that have killed themselves because of this cult
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Author madgraffics
Posted On Fri Nov 13 20:12:52 UTC 2020
Score 248 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:20 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
Is your mom my mom? I got raised in that shit and my abuser was found guilty in a court of law but not disfellowshipped but my mom still thinks this is the end all b e all of religions (:

Edit: meant to put not not now
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Author U-Cranium
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:38:37 UTC 2020
Score 211 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:25 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 16
Body link
Not only this, Jehovah's Witness have a book they produce that's full of pictures of kids and stories of how they bravely chose to die instead of accept a transfusion. Fucking disgusting cult,happy I got out
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Author wanderingwomb
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:59:24 UTC 2020
Score 170 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:28 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 11
Body link
Knowing the cult I’m willing to bet after gaslighting her that it was consensual they then disfellowshipped her for having sex outside of marriage.
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Author sashay33
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:33:45 UTC 2020
Score 8 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:29 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
exjw is a wealth of info
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Author LurkerTryingToTalk
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:24:58 UTC 2020
Score 18 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:31 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 10
Body link
Freemasons describe their organization as a society with secrets, not a secret society.
Their buildings are not hidden, people are proud to be members and let people know. They mostly just do community service and stupid rituals. You can look up all their rituals online and they've been known for ages.
Fun fact, the Boy Scouts was started by Freemasons based on their principles as a sort of youth division.
Jehovah Witnesses are totally crazy.
Freemasons are mostly OK. In the UK you don't have to believe in a god to join but you do in the USA. Freemasons existed long before Jehovah Witnesses.
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Author razzyboss1
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:34:31 UTC 2020
Score 31 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:31 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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Yep definetly. My grandma (a JW) needed a blood transfusion during her surgery and a fucking JW president or something from her "church" insisted he'd be in the room to make sure she won't get a blood transfusion. Luckily the doctor didn't allow him and we had to (i'll probably get backlash for this but fuck it, might as well be honest) bribe the doctor to make sure he will do whatever is necessary to keep her safe. Fortunately the surgery was a success and she is doing much better now in case you're wondering!
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Author jaffakree83
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:37:36 UTC 2020
Score 57 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:34 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 35
Body link
Heh, my dad busted out the Bible and got into a religious debate with a JW and they never came around again.
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Author firegato
Posted On Fri Nov 13 23:44:18 UTC 2020
Score 82 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:35 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 20
Body link
Hold up. Jesus was like: "yo this wine is like my blood and shit. Pass it around and drink it." so... (I know dogma doesn't have to make sense) how in the F you gonna, through conjecture, arrive at such a Ludacris conclusion?JWs make up silly rules, that's why I'm glad I left that organization.
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Author brb_on_a_quest
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:23:54 UTC 2020
Score 23 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:36 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 4
Body link
Ex-jw here also. Am disfellowshipped. I wish I could say this shit surprised me, but it’s par for the course. I think the JW’s are generally considered a joke, but it’s a dangerous and damaging cult.
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Author BooceAlmighty
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:11:21 UTC 2020
Score 14 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:37 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
It's always super old guys with the Jehovah's Witnesses in my area who've been going door to door. Except for the one time they started sending REALLY pretty girls together with an old man waiting nearby.
That was the only time I've purposely answered the door for Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Author ByCrookedSteps781
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:25:38 UTC 2020
Score 29 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:37 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
I would gladly beat the fuck outta that peice of shit, I used to be part of it till 5 or 6 untill my mum got disfellowshipped as a result of them finding out she had me out of wedlock, all it taught me was how much hypocrisy religion spews out. 28 years later my aunty who grew up JW and left after her marriage broke down only to become a lesbian hippy, all of a sudden decides she is no longer lesbian, renounces her former life and goes back to the church. Life is a weird experience.
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Author drunkennudeles
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:45:09 UTC 2020
Score 8 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:39 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 6
Body link
Once the last person is admitted then theJWs rise from the grave to take this world for themselves while everyone else perished.
They also do communion but only people going to heaven drink it so they just pass a cup around the room with "jesus' blood" in it.
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Author CaterwaulOfDoom
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:12:30 UTC 2020
Score 15 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:40 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
Body link
Many Christians dispute the idea that Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian because they don't believe that Jesus is God.
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Author Yurak_Huntmate
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:25:07 UTC 2020
Score 358 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:48 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 61
Body link
My mum got our house blacklisted by the jehovahs witnesses because she brought up the blood transfusion thing, she asked one of them if their child was dying and needed one would they give them it, they replied no, so she went off on them calling them scum, they never returned to our house
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Author uneducatedexpert
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:23:35 UTC 2020
Score 35 as of Sun Nov 15 17:59:49 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
Body link
I was raised as a JW. I started getting molested at 6 by an older cousin. That continued until the age of 9, under threat, until I was able to gain the courage to tell my parents. They didn’t get me help as it would have brought reproach against god. At age 11 my maternal grandmother moved in and molested me as well, until 13. Again, there was no help. No counseling, no support and my grandmother lived in the house after this.
At 15 I made out with my dream girl and we got to heavy petting, as jw’s like to call it. We got caught as was an absolute no no to even hold hands.
I had to site for an hour with three male elders, while I described in vivid detail what we had done. The wanted to know about her wetness, my erection, if we climaxed and what was done with it. Down to the fucking detail. Yet they didn’t want to know anything about my abuse.
...
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Author aka_jr91
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:24:57 UTC 2020
Score 542 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:03 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 142
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Former JW here. AllJW's are expected to sign and carry a durable power of attorney, which they also call a "no blood card." It states for you that even if you're unconscious, you still reject transfusions.
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Author baconaliens
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:44:34 UTC 2020
Score 443 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:12 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 40
Body link
From the article it was just audio, happened more than once and she recorded it herself. Probably because the guy was an Elder's son so she felt she needed evidence for people to believe her and why they psychologically tortured her for hours.
I was raised a JW, my mom still is and has seen this. We actually also live in Utah, near this congregation. It is a cult and it's a shame it attracts good people like my mom and others I have met through the church.
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Author lunakuuipo
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:41:55 UTC 2020
Score 36 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:12 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
Yes! This. Having to go to the other classroom during bday celebrations because my family would make sure to let my teachers know every year that we wereJWs and that I can’t do that... I felt like even more of an outsider. It’s traumatic. I know what you went through and I’m so sorry you were also subjected to this 😣
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Author Empath_Wrath
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:22:47 UTC 2020
Score 171 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:14 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 16
Body link
I remember a girl in elementary school who was a JW. She never stood for the pledge or celebrated any holiday so there were days she looked absolutely dejected sitting outside the celebrations.
The worst the was during morning announcements, if it was your birthday, the entire school would sing happy birthday. Of course she had the only birthday that day, but JW don’t celebrate birthdays, so the entire school sang to her. She looked so miserable and uncomfortable, but when she started crying at the end, I think it broke everyone in class.
Fuck Jehovah’s Witnesses
Edit: we all knew in class she didn’t celebrate her birthday, but the rest of the school didn’t. So we just sat there in silence, looking at her, like kids do. The anguish is etched in my brain.
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Author smutmuffin1978
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:23:04 UTC 2020
Score 43 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:15 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
These people are messed up! My BFF from high school was raised a JW. When her parents sold their house we were helping them pack and found her dad's porn in the rafters of the basement - not regular porn mind you - beastialitality porn! She said that explained why the dog hated her dad!
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Author Made-upDreams
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:00:45 UTC 2020
Score 29 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:16 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 5
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Seeing this is odd as I just started watching Cults and Extreme Belief on Hulu and saw their Jehovah’s Witness episode...fuck now I wish I wasn’t so nice when they kept coming to my door.
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Author ralphiooo0
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:48:12 UTC 2020
Score 19 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:16 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
Hey! I have the almost identical story.
How did you get away with not getting baptised ? I was kinda lucky as mum wasn’t a JW.
My dad was pretty chill for an elder. I never really got any pressure to get baptised either. Was kinda like they thought it was a given but then I hit 16 and started going out and getting drunk and then I don’t think dad minded that I stopped going to church as was always a wreck.
It’s funny what you say about people being sucked in when they are down on their luck. I went to a JW bbq a few years ago and was bored as had nothing on common so started asked people what made them join. Every single one had some shitty life event. Cancer, car accident. Violent partner etc etc. then knock knock I have the answer for you.
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Author m1ssile_
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:00:54 UTC 2020
Score 20 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:17 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
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I’m so sorry to hear that, the brainwashing is so sad, how can you just shun family.
I got baptized at 13, what got to me was all the hypocrisy and mind control, and by 22 I noped the heck outta there. I started hanging out with “worldly” friends, started missing a bunch of meetings, and eventually got a non-JW GF; I wasn’t disfellowshipped as far as I know, I just pretty much ghosted the church and people I had known my whole life; at the time I was young and didn’t care, I was glad to rid myself of the most judgmental people in my life. My mom is still really into the religion, but I am very lucky that she’s not fanatical, my other 2 siblings also left the church and she still speaks to us like nothings changed. It took her around 4 years or so for her to finally stop trying to get us to come back “to the truth”. I remember being an angry kid growing up in the church, once I left the change in my personality was obvious and my family noticed. Best decision I made in my life was leaving.
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Author ISawHimIFoughtHim
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:58:51 UTC 2020
Score 657 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:35 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 253
Body link
There are noJWs in my country so I don't know this stuff.
Can the husband force his wife to die like that without doctors interfering? Why doesn't the wife say something?
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Author Creepy-Exit-5034
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:35:04 UTC 2020
Score 27 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:35 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 8
Body link
wait thats a thing? I used to be a JW as a kid bc my mom forced her religion onto me but I never saw any book like that
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Author westfunk
Posted On Fri Nov 13 20:48:13 UTC 2020
Score 53 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:36 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 25
Body link
If Scientology and Mormonism had a baby, it would be a Jehovahs Witness.
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Author Catalyst375
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:49:41 UTC 2020
Score 84 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:38 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 13
Body link
Parents are not able to prevent their children from getting a blood transfusion. The doctors can give them the transfusion against the parents wishes. The parents will absolutely try to stop them though, and I'm sure there are plenty of example ofJWs denying life-saving transfusion.
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Author UnsettlingAura
Posted On Fri Nov 13 20:19:37 UTC 2020
Score 195 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:39 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 5
Body link
There are a lot ofJWs who are in abusive relationships but cannot escape because divorce is a sin. It really is sick
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Author UnsettlingAura
Posted On Fri Nov 13 20:51:40 UTC 2020
Score 9 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:40 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 5
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Uugh idk how to explain it, I would say look it up but I don't want y'all giving clicks to their homepage. Try asking in exjw they should know!
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Author dec44
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:21:11 UTC 2020
Score 11 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:41 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 4
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Don't forget receiving blood transfusions is also forbidden. A fellow kid I was in school with who was JW had a blood disease and needed a transfusion to live. His parents said no so he died. Fuck all religions.
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Author Its_daveed
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:28:29 UTC 2020
Score 116 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:41 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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I almost died because i needed a blood transfusion but my dad was a JW and didnt want it happening but stuff happened and i ended up having a blood transfusion.
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Author NOFXpunklinoleum
Posted On Fri Nov 13 19:37:59 UTC 2020
Score 927 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:48 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 61
Body link

I grew up in a JW family. Dad an elder.
This is good, and accurate. A little more information, you have to be baptized in order to be disfellowshipped. You can hang around and attend meetings, but the end game is to get you baptized so that total control can be established.
Witnesses are "nice" people. My parents' congregation gets a lot of "down on their luck" types who just attend meetings to get free meals, rides, and even job hookups. My loser uncle who due to health issues can no longer smoke, drink or do drugs started attending meetings a few years ago, my mom fixes his truck, drives him to doctor appointments, took him to Victoria for medical treatment. He barely spoke to anyone in our family his whole life, but he knew where to come for handouts.
The handouts are meant to keep the person around so they can be talked into getting baptized. Most of these people end up taking off after getting all they can outside of getting baptized, but a few get sucked right in.
A friend of mine stayed a JW for many years. His mom died when he was 13, and he was told over and over again that the only way for him to see her again was for him to stay in "The Truth", and that she would be resurrected one day. As he was a child, this was instilled deeply in him, and it took well into his adulthood to realize this was pure craziness. He was eventually disfellowshipped, now his father and two sisters will not speak to him or acknowledge his existence. They have quite literally walked by him on the street without making eye contact. I don't know how someone could do that to family.
I was never baptized, so my parents still talk to me and we have an ok relationship. But that rift is always there, and I know my mom's greatest wish is that someday I'll see the light.
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Author Qball92
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:07:51 UTC 2020
Score 19 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:49 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 4
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It's from 12,000 people from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. Not a JW/exJW, just a little bit of a religious scholar.
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Author theknyte
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:16:07 UTC 2020
Score 37 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:50 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
I know the general world just laughs at Jehovah Witnesses as those "Nutty religious people who knock on the door."
This is all they want the general world to think of them.
THEY ARE A CULT.
They use classic indoctrination and brainwashing tricks that are only employed by cults. They use families against each other with their "Disfellowshipping" belief. Which is: If you don't follow the church's rule 100% to their liking, they will disfellowship you. You are cut off. From everything. Your friends and even your own family is told not to talk to, meet, or contact in any way shape or form, until they come crawling back to the church, begging to be let back in.
Parents willingly kick their own children out of their homes, if the Elders (Leaders of the church, ie Pastors, Priests, etc.) demand it.
They are not to associate with "Worldly Influences". Which means, no friends who are outside the church. No dating outside the church. No watching or reading ANY media not approved by the church. (Information Control and Suppression, another classic cult tactic.)
They do not want authorities to ever be involved with their religion. So any abuse, physical, sexual, mental etc. that is reported to the church, is "dealt with" in house, and even if serious crimes have been committed, they will not report them, for fear of bad publicity.
This is not a harmless religion with "Silly beliefs" such as simply not celebrating or recognizing any holiday including Birthdays. This is a cult, that has been manipulating and controlling their members for over 100 years now.
SOURCE: Was raised in JW org, and left as soon as I was old enough to.
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Author throw_away_abc123efg
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:31:56 UTC 2020
Score 74 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:51 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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They probably witnessed it, I mean, they are called Jehovah’s Witnesses.
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Author ZoraksGirlfriend
Posted On Fri Nov 13 23:38:42 UTC 2020
Score 16 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:51 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
There was one woman who died after refusing a transfusion. For some reason, it made the news and her family was talking about beingJWs. One of them said something like “in this day and age, you’d think doctors be able to prevent her death.”
I can’t remember if I literally face palmed, but I know I yelled at the tv.
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Author Blathersisacoward
Posted On Fri Nov 13 20:14:37 UTC 2020
Score 64 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:52 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
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Growing up in a JW household this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
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Author Vorian23
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:06:48 UTC 2020
Score 72 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:53 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
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They actually celebrate it when children “remain faithful to Jehovah and are willing to give their lives to uphold his laws”. This article is from their magazine the awake and it spotlights kids who died. https://wol.`jw.org`/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101994363 It’s a horrible cult. I wish more people knew about their harmful practices
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Author San_Ajo
Posted On Fri Nov 13 21:56:56 UTC 2020
Score 20 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:54 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
My grandmother was a JW and wanted to let my mother, who needed a transfusion after birth, die. (Austria, 1976)
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Author Mina111406
Posted On Fri Nov 13 22:11:36 UTC 2020
Score 271 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:54 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 64
Body link
If they say it's for religious purposes, there isn't much that can be done. Was working with a patient that died after a car accident because she refused a transfusion because she was JW. She looked terrified saying it, but her husband was there exclaiming the sin of receiving a transfusion. She would have been fine, even though she was seriously injured, but she just lost too much blood. She had a toddler and a baby and died because of her religious belief. Seems extremely selfish to me, but thats my opinion.
There are artificial blood products now specifically for this reason. Because it's fake, they can take the transfusion. But only if a hospital has it available. It's not super common and hard to get in a timely fashion.
Source: am lab tech that does blood bank and work in a very small hospital that also gives me a lot of ER patient interaction.
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Author DickJagamo
Posted On Sat Nov 14 00:13:11 UTC 2020
Score 7 as of Sun Nov 15 18:00:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
Body link
The Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult. Not quite as bad as Scientology, but still pretty bad.
submitted by jw_mentions to jw_mentions [link] [comments]


2020.11.11 13:30 readingrachelx Housewife highlights/Daily shit talk - November 11th, 2020

SALT LAKE CITY
'We're gonna bring something that viewers have never seen,' Jen dished.
The Salt Lake City locale serves as a unique twist to the Housewives universe as the capital of Utah is known to be the global headquarters of the Mormon church.
'The religion here, the dominant religion, which is Mormonism, is very ingrained into the actual culture,' Shah explained. 'Everybody needs to look their best and be their best.'
While Mormonism is the predominant religion in SLC, the cast will offer up more diverse backgrounds with Islamic, Jewish and Pentecostal religions represented.
'It's going to show the thread of religion - how it has influenced all of our lives in whichever way - and the direction we've all taken living here in Salt Lake City,' Jen revealed.
As for her own journey, the 46-year-old converted from Mormonism to Islam after learning of the historical mistreatment of black people in the Mormon religion.
Meanwhile, Jen is busier than ever as the CEO of three marketing companies and mom to two boys whom she shares with her husband Sharrieff.
This season Jen will find herself in quite a tangled web, clashing with one of her fellow cast-mates, Mary Cosby.
Mary has a complicated marriage - her husband was once married to her grandmother. There is no blood relation but, for a time, he was her step-grandfather.
Before the show began, Jen said that Mary had approached her in an attempt to explain the unconventional relationship.
'She's like, "Well, I married my grandfather, but it was because my grandmother put it in her will,"' Jen recollected. 'When she told me that, I honestly was kind of like, okay, whatever. I didn't know if it was like a religious thing, you know? And so at that point, I thought, well, okay, if you're cool, then I'm cool with you.'
Needless to say the co-stars won’t stay 'cool' in season one and the subject of Mary's husband becomes 'the elephant in the room'.
'Why are we not talking about this? This is weird,' the reality star mused. She added that her fellow Housewives seem to gloss over Mary’s love life.
'Why don't we address it?’ Jen questioned. ‘If the ladies are kind of like, "no, no, no, Mary’s…no she’s so great. She has a lot of Chanel [bags]." Okay, and she married her grandfather. Like, you just skipped right on over that.'
This season Jen and Mary’s friendship hits a rough patch but Jen insists that their beef has nothing to do with Mary's husband.
Without getting into specifics, the working mom hinted that there will be issues that arise between the two which she found both 'offensive' and 'disrespectful.'
Shah, who is of Tongan and Hawaiian decent, also makes history this season as the first Polynesian Housewife - a role she calls an 'honor.'
'I've had so many people reaching out from Tonga and Polynesia and New Zealand, Australia,' she gushed. 'There's a lot of people rooting for me. And it just it's an honor to be the first Polynesian housewife.'
The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City series premiere is Wednesday, November 11 at 10pm ET/PT on Bravo."
‘I think that what is already somewhat clear from the trailers is my husband [Seth Stock] and I are dealing with being empty nesters. We have had a bit of a volatile relationship for many years,’ Meredith said to Yahoo News. ‘When you’re empty nesters, it’s sort of a “do or die” situation. You have to finally say, OK, we can’t keep playing this game anymore and separating and reconciling for our children. We’ve got to figure out now, what’s really going to happen? What do we want? Do we want to be together for just ourselves now? Is it just about the kids? In which case, what’s the point of staying together?’
BEVERLY HILLS
"It’s still “Xxpensive” to be Erika Jayne.
The “RHOBH” star — whose legal name is Erika Girardi — is asking for spousal support in her divorce from mega-lawyer Thomas Girardi, per Los Angeles Superior Court documents obtained by Page Six on Tuesday.
Jayne also asked the court to terminate Girardi’s ability to seek support from her and for him to pay her attorney’s fees.
Jayne, 49, and Girardi, 81, married on Jan. 7, 2000, with the reality star filing for divorce on Nov. 3, citing irreconcilable differences. She did not list a separation date in her filing.
While the couple did not have a prenup, Jayne asked the court to let her keep everything she acquired before the marriage and after the separation date as separate property from Girardi.
Jayne and Girardi must provide their financial information to each other, per a court order.
They don’t have any children together, but Jayne has a grown son from a previous marriage.
It is unclear if their split will play out on the Bravo series, as Jayne is currently in production for the upcoming season.
A rep for Jayne had no comment."
"She’ll forever be associated with the Beverly Hills zip code, but don’t expect to see Tori Spelling on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Spelling has shut down rumors that she was set to join the Bravo series’ 11th season alongside her mom, Candy Spelling.
“There's rumors every single season,” Spelling responded, sitting down with Beverly Hills, 90210 co-star Jennie Garth for an interview with ET’s Katie Krause. “I don't even know where they come from. I've always said I'm a huge fan. Jen knows I'm a huge fan. I watch all the Housewives -- I love it! It's my entertainment."
“We work hard, we mom hard and at the end of the night I'm like, ‘I'm putting on my Housewives,’” Spelling continued. “[But] no clue where [the rumor] came from.”
Spelling, 47, joked that even if she wished to join the show, Garth, 48, wouldn’t let her.
“It's not up to me!” Garth chimed in.
“We have so many projects that we want to do on camera and off camera,” Spelling explained. “We're really good producing partners as well, so we have so many exciting things lined up that I'll stick to being a viewer.”
Garth, too, won’t be considering the show, admitting it’s “not my jam.”
NEW YORK
“I really like dropping in on the show,” Heather told HollywoodLife EXCLUSIVELY during an episode of TVTalk on Instagram Live on Nov. 2. “Since I left, I’ve been back. I left [after Season 7], but I never really left. I always like to touch base with the ladies and [now there’s] all this intrigue about [my] big return.”
Although it’s confirmed she is returning, Heather was quick to set the record straight that it isn’t going to be in a full-time capacity. “No, I really can’t [return full time],” the Beyond Fresh Super Foods creator and host of the In My Heart podcast said. “I wish I could on one level, but on another level, I’ve got a lot going on which is great. I’ve got two teenagers. I’ve got two new businesses that I’ve started and listen, Housewives is a lot of work. I know it looks like and it is — We get followed around and we show off our lives, but really Housewives is — Especially New York and with some of the OG’s it’s slapstick. It’s comedy. I know it gets dark and it gets toxic. I don’t love that part of it. I love to talk about real issues and real important things and as long as I can lend to that on the show then I’ll always come back.”
Heather may have already filmed a few times for Season 13, but she says there might be more to come. “You might,” she told us when we asked if she’ll be filming again. ” If it works and it makes sense, then yes. I think this season we’re trying to figure out if there’s an opportunity for more. We’ll see.”
ATLANTA
"It's been a whirlwind year for The Real Housewives of Atlanta's Cynthia Bailey, who managed to plan an entire wedding and finally say "I do" to Mike Hill, all while keeping her various businesses afloat amid the coronavirus pandemic and filming a new season of the Bravo show.
Luckily, Cynthia stopped by Tuesday, Nov. 10's Daily Pop to dish on it all—including that incident from the RHOA season 13 first look!
"I cannot confirm nor deny anything that happened after Miss Bailey Hill went to bed," Cynthia joked, referring to the parts of her bachelorette party that are teased in the trailer and seemingly indicate some of her fellow housewives hooked up with a stripper.
"But clearly some things went down," Cynthia added.
Is she bothered, though?
Nope!
"These are grown women," Cynthia told E! co-hosts Justin Sylvester and Carissa Culiner. "They can do whatever they want to do with whoever they want to do it with. It is not my business. If they like it, I love it."
That doesn't mean she's not nervous to see her husband's reaction to the shenanigans, though!
"I can tell you one thing: that Kandi Burruss-Tucker can throw a party, honey," Cynthia said, reassuring Justin and Carissa that Mike's all caught up on what went down.
Plus, regardless of any chaos that ensued as a result of the party, none of that mattered when it came time for her to walk down the aisle.
The RHOA star revealed that her favorite part of the wedding was "hands down" her and Mike reading their vows to each other.
"He came with the most beautiful vows that he wrote," she said. "I pretty much just wrote down a couple of bullet points and just winged it. But I came from just such an honest place. It just ended up working out perfectly and I think for a lot of our guests that was their favorite moment as well."
Cynthia also gave advice to couples preparing to wed, encouraging them to take precautions to protect their guests from COVID-19.
"At the end of the day, you can't force the guests to get tested even if you encourage it; You can't force them to keep a mask on," she began. "However, just do your due diligence. For us, we had continuous updates throughout, leading up to the wedding. It was not a hostage situation where you had to come to this wedding."
On that note, there was one guest in particular who didn't show: NeNe Leakes.
The recent RHOA alum has publicly addressed why she didn't attend, in addition to shutting down rumors that she asked for $125,000 to do so.
"Listen, I'm very happy for her. I was with her when she took her first date out here in Atlanta with Mike Hill. I was there, I was the third wheel. I wish them nothing but happiness," NeNe said in an Instagram Story while seemingly teasing her new talk show The Read Session. "I'm in a different place in my life where I just didn't think going to her wedding was going to benefit me in any kind of way."
Cynthia gave her take on the matter on Daily Pop, explaining, "I really would have loved NeNe and Greg to come to the wedding."
"Although we're not in the best place right now, I want to believe that regardless of that, she is happy for me, and she is happy that I found Mike," Cynthia added, noting as NeNe did, that she was among the first of her friends to meet Mike. "And I really felt in my heart, it felt actually wrong not to extend the invite."
Cynthia continued, "Now whether she chose to come or not, that's completely up to her. But I felt like I wanted to invite my old friend to be a part of my special day. And I was completely fine with whatever she was fine with."
Thankfully, Cynthia left Daily Pop on a much more upbeat note: by expressing her excitement for the 2020 E! People's Choice Awards, where RHOA is competing for The Reality Show of 2020!
"Well, it means that we are very entertaining!" Cynthia responded when Justin asked what the nom means to her. "We should be nominated! Season 13 will not be a disappointment. I'm incredibly proud to be part of the ensemble cast; to bring you guys this good entertainment and share our lives with you."
She continued, "I've been doing this for, what...This is my 12th season at this point! I can't keep up because I have been here so long...I am proud to be a part of this group of women who keep you guys so entertained."
NEW JERSEY
ORANGE COUNTY
POTOMAC
"The Real Housewives of Potomac ladies have heard a little bit about Gizelle Bryant's relationship with her ex-husband, Jamal Bryant, this season, but they have yet to actually see the couple together in person. So, Karen Huger decided to use their girls' trip to Portugal, which kicked off in the November 8 episode of RHOP, as an opportunity to confront Gizelle about why she never brings Jamal, who lives in Atlanta, around their friend group.
Karen explained during The Real Housewives of Potomac Season 5 After Show that she was genuinely concerned for Gizelle, even if they are not always on the best terms.
"Let's be clear: Gizelle and I, we are hot and cold all the time, that's how our relationship has been. But at the end of the day, I want to see Gizelle win. And so, when a man does not show up in your community on your arm, I mean, what does that say? Why is he not here for you? Why do we not see him?" Karen shared. "It may have been difficult for her to receive, but I was coming from a good place. She deserves, honestly, every woman deserves the absolute best man. If he doesn't treat her well or is ashamed to be in public with her, is he proud of you? Why isn't he adorning your arm around your friends and family in Potomac? That was a simple question, and it struck a chord with her."
RHOP executive producer Kemar Bassaragh said in the After Show that Gizelle's decision to not have Jamal around the other women was actually "kind of smart."
"Well, this is something I've said to Gizelle to her face, so I don't mind saying it here: If you were Gizelle, who has things to say about everyone's relationship, would you now bring your partner around everyone for everyone to have the same comments about him?" he said. "But I get where the other women are coming from is like, 'Oh, now you are in a relationship, now you're with someone, now you don't want us to have an opinion about them? How is that fair?'"
Ashley Darby noted in the After Show that she was especially surprised to hear someone like Gizelle's close friend Robyn Dixon hasn't even met Jamal.
"I was really taken aback by knowing that nobody else had really seen Jamal. I'm not that close to Gizelle, but Robyn, who is her best friend, why would she not spend time around Gizelle's now-boyfriend?" Ashley said. "That just seems like Gizelle is hiding her relationship a little bit and doing so because she knows she has thrown a lot of daggers at other people. And so, she's being a little bit more guarded about what she says and who she introduces because, you know, it's like a boomerang; that thing always comes right back."
Robyn surprised the rest of the group when she echoed Karen's sentiment about Jamal during that first dinner in Portugal. "I totally understood where Karen was coming from because it is something you observe as a group. We all see each other's spouses or partners at some point. And I also know when you don't see our spouses, everyone wants to know, 'Where are they? Where are they?' Expecting them to come," Robyn said in the After Show. "So, it's a valid question for sure, but sometimes I feel like coming from Karen it did not feel sincere. I doubled down on it or I backed it up, but it was more coming from a sincere place than Karen, where I felt she was being a little messy."
Karen seemed pretty thrilled about Robyn backing up her in that moment during her appearance on the Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen After Show on November 8. "Robyn is supposed to be Gizelle's ride or die, but I had to lean back and let her have that moment because that was priceless when Robyn held Gizelle accountable," Karen said. "The world needed to witness that, Andy [Cohen]."
When Karen brought the topic of Jamal up again toward the end of the November 8 episode of RHOP, Gizelle memorably got him on FaceTime to say hello to all of the ladies while they were out to lunch in Portugal. However, that didn't prove anything to Karen. "Gizelle was deflecting when she picked up the phone and tried to prove that Jamal is in her life by FaceTiming him, which didn't work for me because the man lives in the phone," Karen said on WWHL (clip below). "He's been living in the phone for a year."
Karen also confirmed on WWHL that she has "spent absolutely no time" with Jamal and shared her hopes for Gizelle to be more forthcoming with her relationship in the future. "Gizelle certainly became extremely defensive at all of us, all of us girlfriends, we were like, 'Why is she so defensive about Jamal when we ask her about Jamal?'" Karen said. "So all we would like her to do is put down her defense and open up a little bit about her private life. Jamal seemingly is her man. We share our man, share your man."
But it sounds like Gizelle has no plans to introduce Jamal to Karen anytime soon. "I don't want to bring him around people that don't support me, don't love me, and that are truly not wanting the best for me. I know Robyn loves me and wants the best for me. So people like that, I don't have any problems with Jamal being around them," Gizelle said. "But Karen? Karen can kick rocks. She probably will never see Jamal."
submitted by readingrachelx to RHDiscussion [link] [comments]


2020.11.11 02:19 jw_mentions /r/atheism - "Jehovah's Witness Church Forced a 15 Year Old to Listen to an Audio Recording of Her Rape to Force a Confession of Premarital Sex So They Could Blame Her For It"

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EDIT: As of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020, the post is at [521pts36c]

About Post:

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Submission Jehovah's Witness Church Forced a 15 Year Old to Listen to an Audio Recording of Her Rape to Force a Confession of Premarital Sex So They Could Blame Her For It
Comments Jehovah's Witness Church Forced a 15 Year Old to Listen to an Audio Recording of Her Rape to Force a Confession of Premarital Sex So They Could Blame Her For It
Author dutchiesRweird
Subreddit /atheism
Posted On Tue Nov 10 13:06:16 UTC 2020
Score 521 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Total Comments 101

Post Body:

n/a - not a self post

Related Comments (36):

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Author Macabre223
Posted On Tue Nov 10 23:24:23 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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This is all i could really find of the topic. But please don’t take me as the basis for all christian i am definitely out there and in perfect. Just wanted to share my experience. Have a good day
https://wol.`jw.org`/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003087#h=1:0-11:125
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Author dutchiesRweird
Posted On Tue Nov 10 19:06:29 UTC 2020
Score 14 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
Yep. The JW’s did an incredible job of cultivating the PR that they’re kooky but also a “good” and “innocent” sect instead of the authoritarian cult that they actually are. For people unfamiliar with how badJWs actually are this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Author ailovelamp
Posted On Wed Nov 11 01:57:22 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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Here’s a very informative (and heartbreaking) article from the Atlantic about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-`jehovahs-witness`-database-of-child-molesters/584311/
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Author dutchiesRweird
Posted On Tue Nov 10 14:00:20 UTC 2020
Score 27 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
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Not every state has laws that clergy have to report a crime.JW's have over the years fought these laws tooth and nail or ignored them outright knowing governments won't undergo the long legal case and headache from the "freedom of religion defense". In all cases of sexual assault JW leadership has been told to first contact the church's legal department first and not the police.
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Author hitsugan
Posted On Wed Nov 11 11:54:40 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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window washer
It's easy to spot an exjw in the wild when you know what to look for.
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Author qanonsfake
Posted On Wed Nov 11 08:37:12 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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Fuck Jehovah's Witnesses
-Ex JW.
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Author decs483
Posted On Wed Nov 11 04:54:44 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
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Jehovah's Witness is more like a cult than a religion, same with Mormonism
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Author Sharp_Iodine
Posted On Tue Nov 10 23:41:13 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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But wait, who raped her and why isn't he being blamed for having sex with a 15 year old minor girl???
The man recorded his assault on the little girl and yet did no one ask him why he even slept with a minor?! Are Jehovah's witnesses so degenerate and arrogant that they can do such a thing and think they are above common law?
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Author CatNamedEaster
Posted On Tue Nov 10 23:36:30 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
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Thank you for that.
Do understand, though, that many women have been disfellowshipped because they were questioned by three men without any understanding of human behavior who judged that the women could have done more to prevent someone else's criminal actions.
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Author CatNamedEaster
Posted On Tue Nov 10 23:20:18 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
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Yes, but: 1)JWs teach that God nailed the Mosaic Law to the torture stake [Col 2:14], and 2) the last quote in my post shows that it's not only dangerous but unreasonable to demand a woman to try to fight/ scream to scare off her abuser.
There is a lot of evidence to show that a women tend to freeze when being attacked, yet the Mosaic Law says she should be stoned to death if the rape occurred in a city and she did not scream. Makes you think.
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Author M3ntallyDiseas3d
Posted On Wed Nov 11 04:16:31 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
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Great ideas!
I wrote to our last senator but no response or interest. Maybe this time around with a new one it’ll be better. The news stations and local papers didn’t respond either. I even wrote to our local library because I knewJWs meet their studies there. Every time I see a JW pamphlet on grocery store bulletin boards I write JWFACTS.com on it. I’ve been unwitnessing to my coworkers who are supportive and also say they will help spread the truth about the truth. I will not give up.
But it’s discouraging hearing my PIMI husband defending them and attacking me for even asking questions or being critical.
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Author dutchiesRweird
Posted On Tue Nov 10 13:36:22 UTC 2020
Score 58 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 16
Body link
She was being sexually assaulted so recorded one of the rapes as evidencethe rapist recorded hoping he could prove it wasn’t rape it was happening.JW's have a rule that you have to have two witnesses in order for an allegation to be taken seriously. That means unless there is overwhelming evidence of let's say child sexual abuse, if it's only the child making the claim and no one else has witnessed it the abuser will be left off the hook.
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Author farmgoat86
Posted On Wed Nov 11 01:32:00 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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As a former jehovah Witnesses the answer is yes
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Author Nakerin
Posted On Tue Nov 10 23:31:31 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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The perpetrator did it so the victim could be expelled.
Why? Because they are heavily Biblical when they want, so a victim of rape girl is the culprit. JWs(the religion) is so fucked up you can't grasp it.
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Author Fuzzy-mornin-teeth
Posted On Tue Nov 10 22:32:40 UTC 2020
Score 6 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
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JW love to cherry pick, just like every other religion out there. For every scripture they use to justify whatever damaging policy they have, exjws can find one to contradict it, but the bible is soooooo consistent. 🙄
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Author M3ntallyDiseas3d
Posted On Wed Nov 11 03:34:25 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
Which watchtower issue? The elders book, Shepherd the Flock of God outlines the two witness rule in the case of rape. One of the recent watchtower studies stated that the victim should sympathize with the rapist.
If you ask an elder directly about the policy they will lie to your face, even if it’s your own father. Read the elders manual. Those are the rules they must follow. They are taught to use theocratic warfare to obfuscate their true protocols.
Check out JWFACTS.com It’s well researched and doesn’t twist any facts. It uses direct passages from the watchtower publications.
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Author CatNamedEaster
Posted On Tue Nov 10 20:21:10 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 9
Body link
A few other thoughts Watchtower has on the subject:
"Treat Him Respectfully – The intended victim should remember that the rapist is a human. No doubt there are circumstances in his life that have precipitated his behavior. So although a woman should not cower in fear and permit a rapist to intimidate her, at the same time she should treat him understandingly as a fellow human." Awake! 1984 Feb 22 p.24
"Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation. The Christian woman who wants to keep clean and obey God's commandments, then, if faced with this situation today, needs to be courageous and to act on the suggestion made by the Scriptures and scream. Actually this counsel is for her welfare; for, if she should submit to the man's passionate wishes, she would not only be consenting to fornication or adultery, but be plagued by the shame." Watchtower 1964 Jan 15 pp.63-4
"Also, that if she did not scream she would ruin her relationship with Jehovah God and the Christian congregation; that then she would be disfellowshiped or excommunicated from it and that this would be worse than being killed as far as she was concerned." Awake! 1974 Mar 8 pp.13-16
"A Christian woman is under obligation to resist, for the issue of obedience to God's law to "flee from fornication" is involved. (1 Cor. 6:18) By no means would it be proper for her willingly to submit to being raped." Watchtower 1980 Oct 15 p.7
"Why you should resist an attacker from the first moment: ... Your conscience will be clear. (Even if you are raped, you will not sacrifice your self-respect or cleanness before God)" Awake! 1986 May 22 p.23
“The primary reaction of almost all women to the rape was fear.” And the problem is that such fear can be paralyzing. ... "I was overwhelmingly confused and defenseless against the whole suddenness." . . . Profound terror in the face of physical threats simply renders most women helpless." Awake! 1980 Jul 8 pp.5-6
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Author Nakerin
Posted On Tue Nov 10 23:39:07 UTC 2020
Score 5 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Read the Shepherd the Book, "Brother", that's the elder's instruction manual. It has full details of what to do.
If they are not cult, why hide the rules of what gets you and doesn't get you disfellowshipped as apostasy?
Why are older publications apostasy, brother?
Why is it apostasy learning that Charles Taze Russel got the 1914 thing from counting the geometrics of the Pyramids of Keops, made entirely with pagan purposes, and that Jerusalem didn't fall in the 600s but in the 500bC?
Can't you tell? Or why Jehovah had Asherah as his wife?
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Author 7_Percent_Freckles
Posted On Wed Nov 11 07:20:13 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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If you look atJW's and the Australian Royal Commission it may give you a better overview of the situation.
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Author Ill-Palpitation6287
Posted On Wed Nov 11 00:45:27 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Born and raised over 40yrs in the org. Seriously? Have you ever heard from the podium even once that if you are a victim of sexual assault that you should call the police immediately? Have you ever seen it in a JW video? How about the GB? Have you ever heard them say go directly to the police? No! They say go to the Elders. Then in the super secret elder book, Elders are directed to NOT call the police (you can verify this im sure your dad has a copy). Instead they are told to call the branch office and THE BRANCH OFFICE (probably miles and miles away) will decide if the Elders should call the police or not. And as far as the victims go. They are told that yes they can go to the police if they choose but, it may bring reproach on Jehovahs name. Now let's be honest who wants to be that person? Nevermind that they are the innocent party. They are told that they would be doing wrong by going to the police. I know this first hand. I think its great that your dad is protecting you by telling you to go to the police. Does he tell everyone in the congregation to go to the police or just you?
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Author ziddina
Posted On Wed Nov 11 07:03:12 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Adding this bit of information from the 1980's - 1990's Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's telememo reporting form used at their headquarters whenever an elder (congregation middle management) called in with a report of a child being sexually molested.
Page 2 of the Watchtower Society's telememo reporting form for the gathering of information from phone calls about child - CHILD sexual molestation has a hell of a doozy of a question - Question Number Nine - that exposes the Watchtower Society's real attitude towards child victims:
https://www.jwfacts.com/images/child-abuse-telememo-1993-p3.jpeg
How many elders felt that the victim was somewhat at fault or willingly participated in the acts?
THAT is the attitude the Watchtower has towards CHILD molestation victims!
Just like a criminal sexual predator would try to plead off! "But he/she seduced me! But he/she enjoyed it!"
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Author VisionsOfTheMind
Posted On Wed Nov 11 08:19:54 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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So, I can walk up to a JW, stab them with a syringe full of blood, and force them to be excommunicated and punished for receiving a forced blood transfusion against their will right? By this logic it makes perfect sense to me.
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Author Fuzzy-mornin-teeth
Posted On Tue Nov 10 22:38:59 UTC 2020
Score 9 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Wanna know the fucked up part? After the Australian Royal Commission, the numbers were crunched and it was found that a child is at more risk as a jw than a catholic. Catholics outnumber jws there, but jws had more victims and perpetrators.
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Author RobotConvert
Posted On Wed Nov 11 02:25:05 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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other info aboutJWs
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Jehovah’s Witnesses are instructed to not read or watch anything that isn’t approved by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
Wt, 6/1/1967, pg 338,
"...in Jehovah’s organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to that very thing."
[Tony Morris (2015 Annual Meeting)]Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body Member Tony Morris III telling Jehovah’s Witnesses to only stick with what they have approved.
here’s some info:
[JWFacts](http://jwfacts.com) is a great site that brings up the history and information of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
YouTube has many formerJWs also:
exJW Critical Thinker
exJW Analyzer
John Ceders (aka: Lloyd Evens)
StopTheShunning
Child rape/molestation/abuse info:
Below are links and short understanding of what the links are.
Australian Royal Commission Case Study 29: Jehovah’s Witnesses Jehovah’s Witnesses were not the only group that was investigated. See the main page to see other religious and non-religious groups who come in contact with children who were also investigated.
See page 58 of the PDF of case study 29 for the information on the 1,006 alleged perpetrators. You may also use the key word “1,006” in your search bar as well.
Video of Case Study 29
Shepherding the Flock of God book is for elders and those who are allowed to have this book. The rank and file and women aren’t allowed to have this book. This Letter for the Body of Elders concerning binding the elders book was sent from the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society as there was a lapse in elders allowing others to see this book, even just for binding it.
This is the latest Shepherding the Flock of God 2019 Edition. It wasn’t released at the time of the ARC, but it was leaked February 2019 and may be informative in what changes there are into comparison to the one released during the ARC.
Shepherding the Flock of God (April 2020 Edition)
Deeper into the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, the Branch Organization 2018 is a internal document that even local elders may not see.
Here’s the latest Watchtower Magazine Study Edition (May 2019). The link provided is the official link used by The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses. See the article “Love and Justice in the Face of Wickedness” on child abuse. This article was studied by Jehovah’s Witnesses between July 1 to August 4, 2019.
Jehovah’s Witnesses shunning policy.
Watchtower Bible & Tract Societyown lawyer saying that disfellowshipping doesn’t break up families.
Longer video here.
Here’s a video (2:30 minute mark) at a annual meeting where a shunning video was released iirc.
So what the Jehovah’s Witnesses and their leaders at the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society are doing is saying publicly that shunning doesn’t break up families, but internally amongst the group it really does. It is used as a way to keep control.

No matter what false teachers say, we will not follow them! We have no reason to listen to people who are like wells with no water. Those who listen to them will be disappointed. We are determined to be loyal to Jehovah and to his organization. This organization has never disappointed us and always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God’s Word. — Isaiah 55:1-3; Matthew 24:45 Watchtower 2011 July 15 p.12 para. 8 Simplified Ed.
(note: Any links to faith leaks have been removed. Try using https://archive.org/web/ Way-Back to check for these.
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Author dutchiesRweird
Posted On Wed Nov 11 19:15:10 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Please take your apologist bullshit and fuck right off back to the Kingdom Hall.
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Author FlyingSquid
Posted On Tue Nov 10 14:32:35 UTC 2020
Score 76 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Some are more dangerous than others, especially to children. AndJWs can literally kill their own children by refusing to give them blood transfusions.
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Author ziddina
Posted On Wed Nov 11 01:35:59 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Jehovah's Witnesses discourage victims from coming forward about being sexually molested as children:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-42025255
... Louise Palmer, who now lives in Evesham, Worcestershire, was born into the organisation along with her brother Richard Davenport, who started raping her when she was four. He is serving a 10-year prison sentence for the abuse.
The 41-year-old, formerly of Halesowen, West Midlands, said she was told not to go to police.
"I asked [the organisation], 'what should I do? Do you report it to the police, [or] do I report it to the police'?
"And their words were that they strongly advised me not to go to the police because it would bring reproach on Jehovah."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ma25/jehovahs-witnesses-accused-of-silencing-victims-of-child-abuse-uk
At least 20 former Jehovah's Witnesses are suing the group over historical sexual abuse they say they suffered.
The group has a policy of not punishing alleged child sex abuse unless a second person, alongside the accuser, has witnessed it - or an abuser confesses...
John Viney, who says he was abused between the ages of nine and 13, by "a distant family member who was an active Jehovah's Witness", added children were still being abused and the religious organisation was "inadvertently" protecting their abusers.
"The way that Jehovah's Witnesses handle matters within the congregation, it's a closed shop," he told the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme.
"I know for a fact now that there are parents that haven't done anything about the abuse of their children by others because they don't want to bring reproach on Jehovah's name."
The Jehovah's Witnesses' corporate spiritual leaders, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (and numerous subsidiary corporations) have known about the problem for decades. They allegedly have an extensive collection of files of known, confessed, and accused sexual molesters of children which the Watchtower (Bible and Tract Society) has consistently refused to hand over to courts or other law-enforcement authorities:
About the admitted database: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/
In March 1997, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the nonprofit organization that oversees the Jehovah’s Witnesses, sent a letter to each of its 10,883 U.S. congregations, and to many more congregations worldwide. The organization was concerned about the legal risk posed by possible child molesters within its ranks. ....
Keep a copy of the report in your congregation’s confidential file, the instructions continued, and do not share it with anyone.
Thus did the Jehovah’s Witnesses build what might be the world’s largest database of undocumented child molesters: at least two decades’ worth of names and addresses—likely numbering in the tens of thousands—and detailed acts of alleged abuse, most of which have never been shared with law enforcement, all scanned and searchable in a Microsoft SharePoint file. In recent decades, much of the world’s attention to allegations of abuse has focused on the Catholic Church and other religious groups. Less notice has been paid to the abuse among the Jehovah’s Witnesses, a Christian sect with more than 8.5 million members. Yet all this time, Watchtower has refused to comply with multiple court orders to release the information contained in its database and has paid millions of dollars over the years to keep it secret, even from the survivors whose stories are contained within.
Watchtower is so determined to keep the information in their database secret that they were willing to pay over $4 million dollars in legal fines for defying the State of California's requests (subpoenas) to obtain information on such criminals within California Jehovah's Witness (JW) congregations. The Watchtower even had the unmitigated gall to attempt to have the U.S. Supreme Court rule to reverse the original judgment and damages awarded. The Supreme Court rejected the Watchtower's appeal: https://apnews.com/press-release/pr-pr.com/c725a14c86359d1d53b930f9bad04d3d
In the case of JW v. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. et. al., the Riverside Superior Court of California awarded the Plaintiff, “J.W.,” a judgment of $4,016,152.39 plus interest at 10% per year after terminating Watchtower’s defense, because it refused to obey the Court’s order to produce files of known child molesters within the JW organization. In 2018, the Fourth District Court of Appeal in California upheld that decision. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rejection of Watchtower’s Petition (essentially a request for an appeal) lets stand the original judgement and damages granted by the lower court.
The Two-Witness rule:
https://medium.com/@wesharetoinspire/questioning-humanity-the-jehovahs-witnesses-two-witness-rule-ed3b2f5aa6a1
The ‘two witness-rule’ implies that when there aren’t two witnesses to a crime such as sexual abuse one will not act appropriately by not immediately calling the authorities.
If there aren’t two witnesses to a crime the matter should be resolved by Jehovah, according to the Jehovah’s witnesses. Here Jehovah is the name for God. Even though the community claims they urge victims to report the crime and that they do not protect child molesters; unfortunately reality tells us otherwise. Recently, during a major trial in Australia the following was revealed:
“It also examined evidence from case files held by the organisation which recorded allegations, reports or complaints of child sexual abuse by 1,006 members of the organisation.
The Royal Commission found children are not adequately protected from the risk of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witness organisation and does not believe the organisation responds adequately to allegations of child sexual abuse.” Source: https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-studies/case-study-29-jehovahs-witnesses
A protest was held at the gates of the Watchtower headquarters/compound in Warwick, New York, by ex-members, over the horrors of the two-witness rule in cases of sexual predators preying upon children within the JW congregations.
Within a week or two of that protest, Watchtower reinforced their commitment to that insanely cruel two-witness rule:
https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-witnesses-double-down-on-scripture-used-to-ignore-abuse/
What should Jehovah’s Witnesses do if they think someone they know has sexually abused a child, but no one was there to see it?
Nothing.
So say leaders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who instruct elders not to take action against a member of the religion accused of child sexual abuse without a confession or at least two witnesses to the crime.
That policy is based on Scripture, according to the religion’s top officials.
The vast majority of sexual predators abuse their victims in secret, with no witnesses present. And even though Jehovah’s Witnesses are under pressure worldwide for covering up child sexual abuse, a senior official says scrapping the policy isn’t up for discussion.
“We will never change our Scriptural position on that subject,” said Gary Breaux, a senior official at the religion’s global headquarters in New York, known as the Watchtower.
Breaux made the statement this month on JW Broadcasting – the religion’s official internet video channel.
“Our good reasoning is pretty solid on this,” he said. ...
The Australian Royal Commission's Case Number 29 and Case Number 54 are interesting reads for anyone interested in further information:
https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-studies/case-study-29-jehovahs-witnesses
https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-studies/case-study-54-institutional-review-jehovahs-witnesses
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Author M3ntallyDiseas3d
Posted On Wed Nov 11 03:25:35 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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They have a secret database of child molesters
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Author cdlajob
Posted On Wed Nov 11 19:10:41 UTC 2020
Score 0 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Being raped against her will is not a judicial committee involvement. However, someone that claims they were raped to hide that they had sex is. Some crazy kids today might and have recorded sex with a partner. If that tape was played back and she wasn't being rapped but had consentual sex, she can be removed or disfellowshipped from the organization. It's on the same scale as these that film you doing athletic feats while claiming a workman's comp claim and being shown as a fraud. Big picture is needed to understand when a Jehovah's Witness is expelled from the organization. The only side you are going to hear is the one that got expelled, not from the Elders that were part of the judicial committee. Those records are sealed, especially if the person is under 18 years of age.
Reply
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Author ziddina
Posted On Wed Nov 11 03:55:52 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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If you're in the USA, you might email all of your representatives, once the dust settles from this election.
If you have a neighborhood club, get-together, HOA's, you might bring it up as a public-service announcement. Since theJWs allow sexual predators to prey upon children within their own kingdom halls, one might be deeply concerned about their door-to-door preaching work. That smiling JW at the door (which a child just opened) might be an unregistered sexual predator who's received all of a symbolic slap on the wrist from his church leaders.
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Author Nakerin
Posted On Wed Nov 11 08:48:48 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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At least that, yet I am pretty sure he didn't gave a shit or he would have just the disfellowshipping equivalent of a wrist slap...
Wouldn't be the first time.
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Author Fuzzy-mornin-teeth
Posted On Tue Nov 10 22:21:14 UTC 2020
Score 9 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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It absolutely does matter in a court of law, it's part of their "religious practices". Look up Montana CSA Jehovah's witnesses and you will find just such a case. The elders (JW clergy) didn't report an allegation of CSA, despite mandatory reporting laws. They used the clergy/penitent privilege loophole, just like the Catholics do. So even with the recording, they weren't legally obligated to report it. (Lovely little religion, isn't it. /s)
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Author dm_me_kittens
Posted On Wed Nov 11 10:24:09 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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I understand what you're saying, but calling all religions "cults" undermines the damage real cults do to people's lives. I think you would be interested in looking into the BITE model. It is criteria for what is/isnt a cult, created by Stephen Hassan. He is a seasoned a therapist specializing in helping people out of cults and cult deprogramming. Some religions don't meet criteria for it while some non religious movements do. Many ex cult members on YouTube (Telltale Athiest [ex JW], Jimmy Snow [ex Mormon], Genetically Modified Athiest [ex fundamentalist Christian]) have used it to gauge certain movements/religions and how they rank in the world of cults. Fundie Fridays is really amazing too, as her channel mainly focuses on fundamentalist Christian familes/movements, and her videos are quite well researched.
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Author dutchiesRweird
Posted On Wed Nov 11 10:32:19 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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The rape was recorded by the perpetrator who was using it to "prove" it wasn't rape.
The girl was forced to listen to it because the elders view premarital sex as a sin, so they wanted her to confess she had sinned so they could discipline her for it.
Jehovah's Witnesses have a "two witness rule" that means that if you accuse someone of a sin there needs to be another witness to it. So in this case the guy would have had to admit to the rape to form two witnesses to the sin. This has led to a loophole where rapists and child molestors can get away with their crimes within the church.
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Author M3ntallyDiseas3d
Posted On Wed Nov 11 03:24:15 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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Why isn’t this reported on the news? As an exJW this isn’t news to me but I wish mainstream news would report this and stories like this so people are aware of how toxic and dangerous this religion is.
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Author larchington
Posted On Wed Nov 11 06:51:09 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Thu Nov 12 12:24:55 UTC 2020
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He was disfellowshipped
submitted by jw_mentions to jw_mentions [link] [comments]


2020.11.10 19:07 Logic_Feels_Good Social media.

People post these “inspirational” quotes on their stories on Instagram. Ex: “Marry a man who runs to God when you have problems, not to other women.” Why not find a partner who doesn’t run and works through it with you? And like a post on this subreddit I saw yesterday, they crossed out words of a TBMs post to fix it because the message implied we are broken and needed fixing.
They aren’t so uplifting but they are framed as being good. In the words of my grandmother “can’t you see how they’re making good seem wrong and wrong seem right?!?!”
So many of my friends on social media are Mormon and I’ve been thinking about posting my own thoughts or quotes I find but it kind of freaks me out. I only just got Instagram and posting on it still feels weird. I want to send truly positive messages when people are bombarded with ones of not being good enough. Not from “the world” but from a church that supposedly preaches you are priceless in the sight of sky daddy. But sometimes it feels like it might be better to just leave it alone.
submitted by Logic_Feels_Good to exmormon [link] [comments]


2020.11.06 13:30 readingrachelx Housewife highlights/Daily shit talk - November 6th, 2020

NEW JERSEY
“Real Housewives of New Jersey” star Margaret Josephs thinks you can still have fun on reality TV without alcohol.
Josephs, 53, surmises that her co-stars imbibe not because they like to get plastered but because of how awkward it looks to chew food on camera.
“I think a lot of people don’t like to eat on camera unlike me,” she told Page Six Thursday. “I think it’s easier to have a drink on camera then constantly have food in your mouth.
“If you have a drink in your hand it looks more sophisticated. People don’t like to eat on camera and if you’re drinking and not eating, obviously it’s much easier to get drunk,” she added.
The fashion designer will be taking part in a discussion with former “Real Housewives of New York” cast member Barbara Kavovit for Monument, an online platform designed to help users navigate sobriety or moderation.
Josephs told us her mother had an “unhealthy relationship” with alcohol that made for a sometimes frightening childhood. The result is that the Bravo star is a self-professed teetotaler.
“I went in the exact opposite direction,” she explained. “You really go either way but it was very frightening to me so I did vow as I grew up I’m never going to drink in front of my children. It’s not like I’ve never had a drink but I don’t like to feel out of control and you can still be the life of the party and not drink.”
She has been in touch with “Real Housewives of Orange County” star Braunwyn Windham-Burke who recently announced that she is an alcoholic.
“She’s a very strong woman,” Josephs said. “I think that’s really hard that she came out with that. I’ve had dinner with her since then. We’ve had a discussion about it. We’re very good friends.”
And as for the upcoming season of “The Real Housewives of New Jersey” which just wrapped, Josephs promised the usual drama even though they filmed under pandemic precautions.
“The first time we were all back together we were so thrilled to see each other and just so happy,” she said, “but a pandemic does not calm the beast of the savage New Jersey girl.”
NEW YORK
"In a brief clip posted on social media, Bethenny looked back on how far she’s come and opened up about looking forward to her next chapter. “I’ve been through love, loss, a great career journey of passion, drive, [and] determination. I have the most beautiful, beautiful little girl in the entire world who is my dream, and I’ve built a life for myself that I am so proud of, so excited about, so thankful for,” she said.
Bethenny also went on to thank her followers for their support. “I’m really grateful for you who have been on this journey with me, I thank you so much,” she stated, urging everyone to “dream the impossible, because you can make it happen.”
The Manhattan mom concluded her reflective message by sharing she's content where she is in life right now. “I’m happy with where I am, I’m happy to be turning 50,” she said, adding, “This is my 50.”
Bethenny later revealed how she had celebrated her special day, writing, “Two more minutes of my birthday. I spent the day with my daughter, my dogs, in pajamas, with flowers, two cakes & [love].”
ATLANTA
"Cynthia Bailey may not have worn white at her wedding, but the color of her stunning dress had a special meaning.
The “Real Housewives of Atlanta” star, 53, married Mike Hill on Oct. 10 in a glamorous rose gold gown designed by Nneka C. Alexander of Brides by Nona, with the gold symbolic of all the good in her life.
“The only real direction that she got from me is the fact that I knew I didn’t want to wear white. I did not want to wear a white dress, especially not [for] my ceremony dress,” Bailey told Page Six Style while promoting her partnership with McDonald’s for their McCafé Bakery.
“I ended up wearing a white dress [also from Brides by Nona] for my reception dress, which was a lot more casual. But for my ceremony dress, we came up with gold. The dress color was rose gold. And the reason why I wanted to go with gold is because I feel like these are my golden years and I feel like … I kind of struck gold with Mike.”
Continued the star, “I’m at a priceless time in my life. I’m older. I have my health. I have love again. I have my beautiful peaceful Lake Bailey, where I’m at now. I have career opportunities still coming in. My life is golden, so I went with the rose gold dress.”
Bailey said that she wasn’t a bridezilla when it came to planning her nuptials with Hill, 50.
“I’m not like a princess kind of girl,” she said. “So I knew I didn’t want to be a big, poofy, Cinderella kind of bride. I knew I didn’t want that … I wanted something kind of sleek and simple and sexy. This is not my first rodeo, but I didn’t want to be uncomfortable, like super sexy, where I’m like constantly pulling up my shirt and my split is too high. So I was like, I have to look good, but I want to be comfortable. And I feel like she did a great job.”
Bailey did run into a few challenges during her fittings.
“I definitely gained a little pandemic weight, which I did not lose for the wedding … I thought I was going to, but it just didn’t happen!” she laughed. “I had to have my wedding dress designer make my dress bigger. Both of them!”
Continued Bailey, “I always try to be a little weight-conscious, because it just doesn’t move as you get older like it used to. I always feel like if I just order a Happy Meal, then I’m not eating as much as I want to — I really want the Quarter Pounder with cheese. But I’m always like, ‘Okay, let me just get a Happy Meal.’ But sometimes I’ll get two! Or I’ll get the Happy Meal burger and the Happy Meal chicken nuggets.”
SALT LAKE CITY
"Salt Lake City, it's viewed basically as the hub for the Mormon community and that's a fair statement, but there's a lot more to Salt Lake City than just being the center for Mormons," she explained. "Obviously, the Mormon lifestyle does play a big role. There are these [incorrect] views that everyone is just a polygamist and doesn't drink. That's just not true.
"Salt Lake actually does have a level of diversity there. You will see we have ethnic diversity, religious diversity on the show. We are all very different from one another, just in terms of personality and internal wiring. We're all very different."
"Religion plays a big role in Utah – it does," she acknowledged. "It would be like saying religion can play a role in Jerusalem. It plays a big role in Utah. It is part of it. You'll see how it all unfolds."
"Salt Lake City is more than just mountains and religion. When Jen throws a Tongan themed birthday party for her close friend Meredith, it’s anything but a celebration when she confronts Mary about insensitive comments made about her family. Heather discovers that her longtime friend from college, Lisa, has been spreading rumors about her. And after years of judgement and scrutiny, Whitney finally has her dream wedding with her dream guy."
ORANGE COUNTY
"Emily Simpson has some exciting career news to share. The lawyer and The Real Housewives of Orange County cast member is now working with California Innocence Project, an organization that works to "free the wrongfully convicted, work to reform the criminal justice system, and train students to become zealous advocates," according to their Instagram.
When The Daily Dish recently spoke to Emily, she opened up about this new chapter in her life as a lawyer. "I’ve always been interested in the Innocence Project. I’ve actually watched lots of series and documentaries about wrongfully convicted people who have spent large amounts of time in jail and then have their convictions overturned by certain organizations, like the Innocence Project," she said.
Emily knew now was the time for her to take on this new endeavor. "There’s different Innocence Projects in each state and city. It’s just been something that I really, really, really was interested in. And I always wanted to volunteer with them. But I always worked full time as an attorney and then now I just feel like I’m in a position where I’m not working as an attorney full time so I wanted to use the time, my down time to volunteer with them. So I reached out to them maybe like six months ago or something," she explained. "So now I’m actually on their board. So, I do case review as far as cases that get submitted. And I’m on their board, so I’m gonna plan a fundraiser at some point, hopefully."
Emily further addressed joining CIP on Instagram, writing, "I’ll also be doing Case Reviews for new applicants to CIP who may have been wrongfully convicted. It’s an honor to use my education to assist such a worthy and necessary cause."
"Shane Simpson's attempts to pass the bar were a hot topic during Season 14 of The Real Housewives of Orange County. Emily Simpson's husband took the test and hadn't passed after several attempts at it. So when The Daily Dish chatted with Emily recently, she offered an update on her husband's legal career and if he's taken the bar exam again as of late.
"Well he hasn’t taken it recently. He does every once in a while tell me that he plans to take it again. I’m just like 'OK.' I don’t even want to know if he takes it again. I don’t know, can you just take it and not tell me?" she said with a laugh. "It stresses me out. It just stresses me out too much and then it becomes part of the show and everybody talks about it."
Given all the chatter around Shane and the bar exam, viewers might forget that Emily is a lawyer herself. So, is she surprised by the amount of attention Shane's career gets over hers? "Well, you know, Shane is more controversial than I am," she said, with a laugh. "That’s why he gets discussed more than me. But no, it is interesting, yeah."
Emily reflected on her own experience with the California Bar Exam when she took it in the past versus Shane's experience with it.
"I feel badly for him 'cause when I took the bar exam in 2005, I took it as a single person. I didn’t have children. I didn’t have a job. I had just graduated from law school. So, I didn’t have all these other responsibilities. So, I feel badly that not only is he trying to take the bar exam where he is a father of five children and has a wife and a home and a family. But he’s doing it with like two million people watching. I feel badly 'cause that’s a lot of pressure," she said.
As fans saw in the RHOC Season 15 premiere, Emily and Shane have moved past any of the ups and downs they were experiencing in the previous season. And Emily reiterated that no matter what fans see, Shane has his own way of handling it.
"And we are [doing better] and I think we’ve just gotten to the point where it’s just — he really doesn’t care. He handles all of that so much better than I do," she said. "I’ll be like, 'Oh my gosh, people,' and he’s like, 'I don’t care.' He really doesn’t care. So I have to give him props for really just the show and people and their opinions of him, they literally do not affect him at all."
"Braunwyn Windham-Burke is always open about her personal life and her “modern marriage” to husband Sean Burke has been no exception. The Real Housewives of Orange County mom of seven has recently discussed their living situation, noting that they had made the decision to live in separate homes. However, in a recent Instagram post, it appears that their set-up has changed.
In a November 4 Instagram post, Braunwyn and Sean posed for a sweet photo together. Braunwnyn showed some appreciation for her husband in the caption of the post, writing, “On Wednesdays we smash the patriarchy!! Feeling hopeful this afternoon! Thank you seanwindhamburke for being by my side these past few crazy months. We might be doing things our own way, but it’s working and working well. So happy to have you back home.”
Braunwyn also added the hashtags “26 years,” “life partners,” “I’ve got you,” “modern marriage,” and “renegotiating” to the post.
In response to a follower who commented, “You seem happy,” Braunwyn replied, “I am.”
"Elizabeth, you had to keep your lips zipped when asked about your wealthy ex-husband. But there's no gag order stopping you from unzipping your purse," Andy began. "So I have a round of questions about the lifestyle your marriage afforded you with... Viva Liz Vargas."
"What's the most cash you've ever had in your wallet?" he began, and already we were hooked. Elizabeth nonchalantly answered, "Most cash I've ever had in wallet... $250,000."
"What do you estimate your monthly clothing budget was when you were married?" Andy asked on behalf of all of the viewing public. To which Elizabeth assuredly responded, "Oh, uh easily around $20,000-$30,000."
BEVERLY HILLS
MIAMI
“I have really been trying to get Peacock to pick up Miami,” Andy said on the Thursday, November 4, episode of the “Everything Iconic” podcast. “I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this. I don’t know where we are with that. I have to say the fans of Miami are still very vocal, and so I’ve been an advocate for Peacock bringing back Miami.”
Andy also weighed in on why he thinks the series wasn’t as successful as other Housewives shows. “I think Miami as it was on Bravo really suffered from Mama Elsa not being around in season 3,” Andy said. “She was very sick. I think she was a more important part of that show than people realized. The problem with the third season was that the ratings were declining as it went on and they went down for the reunion, which is usually the opposite of what happens. I think that went into the decision to not pick it up.”
AUCKLAND
"Look out New Zealand, 'coz you're about to Get Housewife'd! Announcing an all-new show starring original cast members from The Real Housewives of Auckland - gilda_kirkpatrick and michelleblanchardnz. The ladies will lead their very own mission impossible with the help of a team of experts, along with cameos from some of the original cast. Stay tuned, coming soon!"
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2020.11.01 21:00 sweetpea122 Similarities in Relationship Patterns between Deavan, 2 MTV Teen Moms Jenelle Evans and Kail Lowry, and Lori Daybell/Vallow

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that Deavan is Lori Vallow. I'm saying that Lori in her earlier relationships has similar patterns and dysfunction to Deavan, Kail, and Jenelle. Lori is an extreme of the 4 to the worst possible level. I just think it's worth noting the patterns and looking at differences.
Quick background on Lori Vallow at the bottom if you don't know the case
I think Deavan is on her way to being just like Lori Vallow, Kailyn Lowry, and Jenelle Evans because she has the same strike pattern. Hear me out because I'm not talking about the murder of Tylee and JJ necessarily. That is a the most horrific end to the story, but it's a long and complicated story that started with patterns. I'm talking about all of the instability that started 25 years ago. All of the events and relationship patterns including a sick child (Tylee). Lori dumped all her husbands, then paired up with a new ally to rescue them, then later accuse them of horrendous abuse. Lori is worst case and obviously more is going on there, but the patterns are recognizable. A couple of the teen moms do the same and Kailyn and Jenelle come to mind. Someone always has to be evil. There isn't a mid-ground like "he sucked as a partner" and try to heal yourself if needed and move on and don't fall for that again. With Kail there are only patterns of black and white thinking called "splitting". With Jenelle there are a lot of medical excuses as well with Kaiser and herself. Then with Lori there is all of that. Similarly with Kail there is only back and forth partner abuse allegation, with Jenelle there is both child physical abuse and physical partner abuse, and with Lori there is physical/sexual abuse claimed on the children and herself.
In contrast if we leveled them Kail would be at one level, then Jenelle, then Lori next level loon
Key patterns, actions, or beliefs:
Deavan claimed just this year that Drasilla's dad abused her while she was pregnant and never helped support Drasilla. It seemed reasonable because he is not around at all. He's not in Drasilla's life it seems and we all found out he's having a new baby and they haven't had any contact at all. Then she also said everyone put her life in danger bc of it and was hysterical. That makes multiple people threatening her life this year 1. Aunt, 2. Ex 3. Jihoon giving info to fans 4. Fans
She just repeated step 1 with Drascilla's dad. She was pregnant with Jihoon's baby and once that soured, it's like a lightswitch. She just dumped him and has a new bf BC he was abusive. Not just verbally nope. He rips huge chunks of hair out of a child and beats a puppy. She said she heard it at 3am? Why is Drascilla up at 3 am and why would he do that then? He pulled her hair and I think it happened like he said, but not at 3 am. If Drascilla is up at 3am for conversations about behavior the conversation should be go the fuck to sleep.
Deavan can't face the backlash of admitting that Korea wasn't what she hoped, she wasn't getting her perfect blended Korean Vlog family out of Jihoon, and it wasn't working for her (after essentially giving it no time, but whatever) probably partly bc of the money stuff, partly bc she didn't try to learn anything about Korea? Not the obvious problems like not getting to know the city, learn the language, attempt to discipline Drascilla, and hear people's feelings that Drascilla's behavior causes problems for them. I think that Jihoon and his parents felt that and expressed that, but she shrugs it off and calls it cute. She instead found a new bf on the low and planned an escape with Jihoon as the scapegoat.
Of course she can't just admit that a one night stand turned husband oddly didn't work out and leave it at that, she has to try to get out unscathed which means inflating the truth by a lot. She goes Genghis Khan (I can't actually remember who says it) it's not enough that I win it's that everyone else must lose. Any effort to get her to reevaluate herself wont' be heard at all. She just shuts down and then figures out how to point the fingers back at the person. She lives in I'm rubber you're glue.
Jihoon's parents come to Vegas and Drascilla sleeps with them. That's so wrong to do when you don't know the guy and gross. We know Drascilla lacks discipline and gets no guidance at all, but the solutions are always obstructed by something else. This wouldn't be like that IF ...he/they/she hadn't/didn't done this to me/Drascilla.
“She can do as she pleases in my house because it's my rules," she points out. "She wants to be on the counter; she can, because she wants to cook," Deavan adds."So it's no one's business if she's on the counter in my OWN house," she adds. Deavan explains that Drascilla behaves differently when she's out in public."Doesn't mean she does it everywhere," Deavan says. "Only MY house because I like her help and I'm not an a--hole,” she concludes. So there.
To really top off the delusion, she adds in a "well that's how I was raised and I turned out fine" and let's be clear, she did not turn out fine. She barely graduated high school and was pregnant either during or as soon as it ended and well look at where she is now. She was just begging for money for implants a couple months ago and that was even better off than we see her today.
Deavan later posted a photo of herself at three years old. In the caption she recalls that her own mother gave her the freedom to be messy, run amok and choose her own outfits. "I let Drascilla do the same thing," Deavan explains."Because I loved my childhood and remember fun good times."
The counter isn't an issue just at her house though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkO9gqowfnA, there's the awful scrambled eggs incident. We see Drascilla eating eggs for everyone with her hands in digging in to the mutual plate and a dirty diaper. She claims it is a pull up and I unfortunately just got a good look. It's a diaper. Interestingly, Elicia is able to pick her up because Drascilla gets sick.
I'm not going to rehash throwing the dog, but Drascilla did that and more importantly Deavan watched and didn't react with concern the way normal people do. She denied it happened even though it was recorded. The bigger problem is that she saw Drascilla being extremely rough with the puppy minutes before and remarked how cute it is that the kids are playing rather than stop and correct it. If Drascilla's behavior aka Deavan's parenting get criticized then Drascilla usually has an illness, a trauma, or a stressor and we're seeing that with T now too. She said that T is not learning language properly bc he was exposed to two languages. Well he's only 18/19 months so that's not even alarming, but she's ready with an excuse.
Just this year Deavan has talked about her aunt trying to kidnap her, someone might kill her bc Drasilla's dad was ousted online, she's had to move 2x at least bc of evil fans and Jihoon, Jihoon abused her daughter and dog, the police didn't believe her, Drascilla has physical problems now as a result, she has cried and begged for implants indicating a really fucked up self-image along with botched plastic surgery, she moved to Korea, dumped Jihoon, moved to Utah, moved to LA, moved in with new man, engages in contradictory stories that aren't consistent and for no real gain that I can see except attention seeking, and theres more I'm sure.
Thorough source here if you want to explore high drama true crime https://www.annielytics.com/blog/personal/timeline-events-around-disappearance-of-tylee-ryan-jj-vallow/
Lori Vallow is suspected of murdering her two children with her new husband Chad Daybell. Lori has been married 4x and each one has abuse allegations at the end that seem abrupt and always while she's with a new man. She then uses that new man to help her make the last one's life miserable until they die strange or questionable deaths. Each gets accused of abusing the kids or her with the help of the new love interest. No one is just grey, it is all black and white good and evil with Lori. If the relationship sours, that's it. There will be any justification for getting rid of that person even murder or claiming they are zombies. Literally zombies.
Kailyn Lowry of Teen mom 2 has done something similar with 3 men and each one is the savior for the last and same for Jenelle Eason. All of these except Lori get pregnant fast, but it might be the difference in age. Once the relationship ends in heartbreak no one gets to leave with a bit of a bruised ego to lick wounds maybe get back to center at some point. Nope you're headed for destruction.
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2020.10.28 17:02 Expatb Best Romance Books of the Decade (2010-2019) according to r/RomanceBooks

This is it. This for real, is the Grand Poobah and the culmination of everyone looking up their favorite books, only to find out they were published in 2008 or 2009! Prepare yourself for a long post with many links. And I sincerely apologize for the length. Strap in, it's gonna be long!
First off, thank you to everyone who participated, by either nominating and/or voting in our Best of the Decade Romance books poll. Below you will find the top three (and in some cases the top one) books in every category polled.
Descriptions of books are linked to Goodreads, and not included here as the post became too long. Quoted text is from the person who nominated the book as to why they felt it should be one of the best.
For a quick look at all books nominated you can find the spreadsheet I used to track here.
Best Fantasy Romance - Nomination Thread
1st Place: A Court of Mist and Fury by Sarah J. Maas, 2016; YA, M/F, Open door; nominated by u/failedsoapopera
Why I love this book so much:
*It deals with real mental health issues within an interesting & rich fantasy world>
*The chemistry between the main characters is on point
*It has so many favorite tropes: friends to lovers, fated mates, there's only one bed!, training montages, etc.
*Watching Feyre find self worth, power, and purpose, as well as friendship and love is just so healing for me
*It straddles the line between NA and regular fantasy, but I think it deserves a place in the fantasy contest because it was widely loved, made an impact on the romance world when it was released, and while there are some technical issues with SJM's writing IMO, it's a well-crafted, fun, and heartwarming story. Plus, it's got a great cliffhanger.
2nd Place: Radiance by Grace Draven, 2015; M/F, open door; nominated by u/Hrylla
This book fits so many of the things I personally like
*Friends-to-lovers
*Altar diplomacy (arranged marriage)
*Strong heroine
*"Ugly" hero
*Besides that the pace and story just flows so nicely. Being a sucker for world building I also thoroughly enjoyed myself (that weird dish where she had to kill the pie? Great!).
*It also features such swoon worth quotes as: "Woman of day," he said slowly. "You mean everything to me.”
3rd Place: Uprooted by Naomi Novik, 2015, YA, M/F, Close Door; nominated by u/SphereMyVerse
To be quite honest I’m nominating this one cos it was one of the first fantasy romances I read, and I think it needs to be here! It was a huge hit at the time. It’s the classic immortal hero with deeply ridiculous name meets and is awful to a feisty young woman, who gives as good as she gets despite the weird power dynamic. It‘s a go-to rec for a newbie to fantasy romance.
Also it should have been F/F, Kasia and Agnieszka had way more chemistry, Sarkan was just tolerable some of the time, thank you for listening to my TED talk
Best Debut Novel: Nomination Thread
1st Place: The Kiss Quotient by Helen Hoang, 2018; CR, M/F, Open Door, Own Voices; nominated by u/nmnenado
An obvious nomination and continuous top rec on the sub. This book gender-flips the Pretty Woman trope and gets points for featuring racial- and neuro-diversity, no-shame sex work, a sweet love story, and super steamy sex.
2nd Place: Bringing Down the Duke by Evie Dunmore, 2019; HR, M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/Yellowtail799
Annabelle Archer, the brilliant destitute daughter of a country vicar, meets Sebastian Devereux, the cold and calculating Duke of Montgomery. She has earned a place at Oxford, rare as she is one of the first female students, and it is dependent upon her support of women's suffrage. He is looking for a wife, not an outspoken commoner who may upset his political position. Love ensues.
Quality Points: historically rich; the problem that separates them from being together is actually dealt with (not waved away) in a way that makes sense.
3rd Place: The Hating Game by Sally Thorne, 2016; CR, M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/expatb
This book took contemporary romance by storm and skyrocketed Sally Thorne to stardom. She created a great enemies to lovers story with a secretly pining hero that was hard to resist for many a reader. Including me! I loved Lucy and Josh and the sweetness that developed between them.
This book was so popular and well liked that many (including me) had such high expectations for her second novel that there was no way she could live up to it and the book fell flat. To this day, The Hating Game is one of the most recommended CR, enemies to lovers book out there.
Best Historical - Medieval - Nomination Thread
1st Place: Never Seduce a Scot by Maya Banks, 2012; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/seantheaussie
No reason given.
2nd Place: Agnes Moor's Wild Knight by Alyssa Cole, 2014; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/expatb
I think that there is a real talent to tell a story in a shorter format, and Alyssa Cole is mastering that with her novellas. Her ability to have a set-up, build a relationship, have a nice level of steam and have me buy in to it all in 50 pages, is something to be lauded.
I loved this novella about Agnes, who is a black courtier in James IV court. I felt that there was a real connection between Agnes and the Wild Knight, which is a switch for me, as someone who doesn't like short timelines, or insta-love. But it really worked for me. I loved that her Highlander had come for her - it was HOT.
I also really enjoyed the uniqueness of having a black character in that setting. In reality, they existed, but we don't see them too often in books and the fact that she is present and has a mind and is basically a diplomat for James made me really like Agnes and this story.
3rd Place: Far, Bright, and Terrible by Elizabeth Kingston, 2017; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/SaMnReader
I could have nominated any of this series. Kingston takes difficult characters and has believable growth through the book. This one was very emotional, taking a character that was loathed and felt irredeemable in the prior book and giving her a love story to end all love stories. The hero is a teddy bear, the heroine is a manipulative, powerful force made so by her excellent backstory. The story reckons with the girl she was and the woman she became-and the hero loving her for it all.
And Nick Boulton reads the audio.
Best LGBTQI Books - Thread
1st Place: Red, White and Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston, 2019; CR, M/M, Open Door; nominated by u/arsenal_kate
It’s just so incredibly charming and sweet. It’s perfect escapism, both on the relationship level and on the political level.
2nd Place: Glitterland by Alexis Hall, 2013; CR, M/M; nominated by u/eros_bittersweet
A highly-educated writer with bipolar disorder is smitten at first sight with a skinny-jeans-wearing, glitterly-epauletted Essex lad. They have a flirtation in which Ash, the writer, castigates himself for the attraction he feels towards Darian, who he initially thinks is as brainless as he is unapologetically tacky: "Hunjad Pacent!" But all is not what it seems. During their initial hookup Darian is thoughtful and caring, beyond what one would expect of a one-night-stand, and he expresses interest in dating Ash. As their relationship progresses, he demonstrates that he is the better person of the two and that he is good for Ash in every way: he brings him down to earth, he forces him to think of others. His every action, from cooking him dinner to bringing him timely wet-wipes, is thoughtful and demonstrative of his care. But Ash's obstacles to love are many, and all of them are within himself. He must overcome his own prejudices against Darian's background, and his personal demons, which tell him he does not deserve love, to be the partner Darian deserves.
A very modern story about pride and prejudice, this book is, in my opinion, just in another class of storytelling. Not only is Ash's prejudice against Darian a theme, but so is our own prejudice as the reader, in (most likely) assuming Ash is the more worthy man of the two. In Ash's metaphorically laden internal monologues, which are wildly creative, his imagery quite often becomes overwrought and disproportionate to the events and things described. Doubt creeps in gradually: is Ash, so very intelligent and privileged, not sometimes just as absurd as Darian can be, if not more so? Isn't Darian, Essex Salt-of-the-Earth, actually a lovely person; his goodness, emotional intelligence and instinctive sense of rightness just as worthy of our esteem as Ash's cleverness? Alexis Hall's intensely immersive first-person narrative tells a love story that also makes us question our own prejudices. And as the book unfolds, we judge each of the heroes less for their ways of expressing themselves. By the end of the book, I found I was unable to be amused at Ash's hyperbole when I understood how much pain lurked behind it, and understood that Darian's absurdities mattered far less than his good heart.
Ash's burdensome inner life is a heartbreaking picture of bipolar disorder. This is a book that does not use mental illness to force drama upon the plot: one of the most affective moments of the book is when Ash builds a simple trip to the grocery store into a psychological crisis. His actions, though they stem from his illness, are often selfish, yet we see how much it hurts him to carry them out, how much he loathes himself for things done out of a sense of self-preservation. Importantly, he does not need to become perfect or healed to win Darian's love: he must merely accept himself as deserving of it.
It's a wonderful, thematically rich book with a beautiful love story as its heart.
3rd Place: The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller, 2011; HR, M/M, Closed Door; nominated by u/expatb
This book is beautifully written. Miller's prose and the fact that she is a high school classics teacher as her main job helps with the intimate knowledge she has of the Iliad and the time period, which shines through in her storytelling. She fills in the blanks left by Homer in his epic poem and creates such a believable love story between Patroclus and Achilles. This book was great.
Best Contemporary Novel - Nomination Thread
1st Place: The Kiss Quotient by Helen Hoang, 2018; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/theheartofanartichok
I think this book deserves to win because it was unique and very sexy. I loved the hero and the way this book treated both autism and sex work. I can’t think of another book that made me sigh and swoon the way TKQ did.
2nd Place: Get a Life, Chloe Brown by Talia Hibbert, 2019; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/expatb
This was the first book I had ever read by Hibbert and what an introduction! This book blew me away with the humor, the steam, and the representation of people with illnesses that aren’t immediately apparent. They way that she handles both characters and their issues so deftly and weaves them into the story is amazing and set the bar (high) for me. Red became instant book boyfriend material. And Chloe was someone I really wanted to get to know and hang out with.
I enjoyed it so much, that immediately after I read it, I sent it to a few of my friends for them to read.
3rd Place: Pretty Face by Lucy Parker, 2017; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/1RexManningFan
*Both characters are genuinely likable
*Slow burn romance. You know it's inevitable, the characters know it's inevitable, but they try to resist
*Obstacles to HEA are not contrived. Feels realistic and again, characters are aware of their issues but work around them
*Unique setting - London theatre world
Best Paranormal Romance - Nomination Thread
1st Place: Clean Sweep by Ilona Andrews, 2013; M/F; nominated by u/expatb
This was the first book that I read by Andrews and it was fantastic. I loved the slow burn and the alternate universe that they created. A house that is magical and tied to the witch who keeps it? Yes, please. While I don’t tend to favor vampires and werewolves, I really enjoyed the ones in this book! If that doesn’t make it the greatest, nothing will.
2nd Place: Burn for Me by Ilona Andrews, 2011; M/F; nominated by u/Scavengerhawk
This book/series is one of a kind. A kickass heroine who LOVES her family and respects herself. The Hero is intimidating and powerful but respects her, listens to her, relies on her knowledge/power when they pair up. It's a slow burn with a lot of character development. You fall in love with her quirky grandmother and her war-veteran mother. She always strives to do the right thing and is true to herself.
Amazing plot, amazing story, and the perfect slow-burn with just enough banteflirting.
3rd Place: Once Burned by Jeaniene Frost, 2012; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/Needednewusername
I believe this book should win because both characters have powers that make the other more vulnerable than they had ever been in the past, and that vulnerability leads to a truly beautiful love story!
Best Historical - Georgian/Regency - Nomination Thread
1st Place: A Week to be Wicked by Tessa Dare, 2012; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/seantheaussie
Tessa Dare's A Week to Be Wicked is fucking awesome. I spent my time reading it feeling warm inside, with a smile on my face and often squirmed and hummed with happiness. It peaks at the second greatest romantic moment I have yet read.
2nd Place: Duke of Sin by Elizabeth Hoyt, 2016; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/mirukushake
*The hero of this book is a uniquely mercurial, vain, and cunning villain, without being an asshole
*One of the darkest hero backstories this side of the 2000s
*Heroine has been given a raw deal in life but still takes pride in what she does, and can find the good in others, including the bad boy hero
*Hot bathtub-related sex
3rd Place: When Beauty Tamed the Beast by Eloisa James, 2011; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/mirukushake
*House M.D., but make it Georgian and add some beauty and the beast vibes
*The characters act in very ridiculous and anachronistic ways, but their banter is so hilariously snarky it works anyway
*The MCs actually spend time together and get to know each other in real ways, and the ending of the book beautifully shows just how deep their feelings are
Best Young Adult/New Adult Romance - Nomination Thread
1st Place: A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas, 2015; FR, M/F, open door; nominated by u/expatb
I feel like Maas almost singlehandedly created the “New Adult” genre. She certainly did for me. This book creates such a beautiful - and hot! - story that gaps that younger reader to adult reader so seamlessly. Plus, it’s a Beauty and the Beast retelling, which is one of my absolute favorites. I thought Feyre was such an interesting heroine and I enjoyed reading about her journey and her ability to take on some very tough situations.
With how much I enjoyed this one, maybe I’ll finally read the follow up books someday!
2nd Place: The Deal by Elle Kennedy, 2015; CR, M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/urchicken
This book is such a great introductory book into the New Adult genre. I love the banter between the two MCs. I love that they established a friendship before jumping into bed together. This book was light hearted and fun with just a touch of angst. Also the hero is a hot hockey player, who doesn’t love that?
3rd Place: Autoboyography by Christina Lauren, 2017; CR, M/M; nominated by u/booksandwine99
This is a YA m/m romance. It's senior year of high school, and Tanner is a bisexual non-mormon living in Provo, Utah (an area with 98% mormon population). He can't wait to get out of there, and has no plans on meeting anyone in Utah. Then BYU college student Sebastian TA's in his creative writing class and sparks fly. The problem is, Sebastian is a poster boy for devout mormonism and is leaving on a two year mission for the church in a few short months.
I may have loved this more because I am an ex-mormon, but I still reccomend it even if you don't have any knowledge of mormon culture. Christina or Lauren either have history with the church or they did their research because it is spot on. I liked the characters and it had just the right amount of conflict and angst.
Best Historical - Western/Americana - No Thread (only one nomination)
Tempest by Miss Beverly Jenkins, 2018; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/grumpyblonde
This book was my first foray into Beverly Jenkins and I loved it! This book has an independent, adventurous heroine (who is a crack shot btw) and a closed-off grumpy hero who mourning the death of his wife and trying to raise their daughter. The characters build a friendship, learn to communicate and bring out the best in each other. Regan, the heroine, updates the hero's outdated views about women. The book delves into the challenges of being black in the US in the 1800s and complex family dynamics. Their daughter is so precious and the main characters have some great chemistry!
Best Science Fiction - Nomination Thread
1st Place: The Last Hour of Gann by R Lee Smith, 2013; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/jaynarg
I've been waiting for what feels like forever for this thread! This book is seriously worthy of awards. It's amazing. Coming close to 1000 pages, it has everything. Humans crash landing on an alien planet. Aliens (of course). The writing is wonderful. The world building...wow. The story is just amazing. After I read this the first time it stuck in my head for months. I'm actually rereading it right now. If you read this book, proceed with caution. TW: this book contains a lot of rape
2nd Place: Starflight by Melissa Landers, 2016; M/F, YA; nominated by u/everymovieapicture
In the words of Stefon, this book has everything. A found family space crew! Space class differences between a space aristocrat hero and a scrappy, badass underdog heroine! That heroine using the hero's temporary amnesia to force him to act as her servant and position her as the aristocrat instead! Naked cuddling for warmth! And so, so much more.
Truly, this book scratches every Sci-Fi romance itch for me. Beautiful yet approachable world-building, fantastic characters, a great supporting cast, and of course, a heart-throbbing romance that's good until "And they lived happily ever after."
3rd Place: This is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohter and Max Gladstone, 2019; F/F; nominated by u/MedievalGirl
This novella won all the science fiction awards in the last year. It is also a great romance with exquisite prose. Red and Blue are agents for rivals in the Time Wars. Their taunting messages to each other in tree rings and tea (among other odd things) turn to love letters.
Best Historical - Victorian/Edwardian/Golden Age books - Nomination Thread
1st Place: The Duchess War by Courtney Milan, 2012; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/SaMnReader
A book that for me, comes down to moments. There isn't one particular thing in this book that I can point to and say "that," but the way the arc is constructed, the lack of sacrifice on the part of the heroine, and a hero who ultimately just loves her as she is for who she is. The fact that Robert has some of the best lines does not hurt, including "Look up," Minnie is introverted, and assertive, and is certainly no "mouse". I love a heroine who believe she deserves more than the plan and course her life is taking and despite it being hard, she decides to change it. Robert is a hero and a character who is ideal but not without flaws, he's someone to aspire to.
I've read this book 4-5 times. I think, "Oh,I 'll just read a chapter" and find myself sucked in by the charm, the humor, and the earnestness of it. It's sparkles, it shines, and the moment they meet is one of the best meet cutes in my opinion.
This book does exist in a world that is being set and built and is heavily enriched by the series and the prequel, but it delighted me when I first read it, and it delights me more now.
2nd Place: Ravishing the Heiress by Sherry Thomas, 2012; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/SaMnReader
A most unusual and heartbreaking romance, never easy. It would be easy to reduce this to a romance about a guy who cheats on his wife and woman who stupidly waits for his husband to love her and see her.
Only see, that's not what this is. That's barely a part of the plot even though this discussion dominates low ratings. I submit, instead, this is a book of a man and a woman not given a choice in their partners and learning how to live with it. This is unrequited love and friends to lovers. This is about who you grow to be and reconciling your past with your present.
Millie is one of the most understated tough and amazing heroines. She could launch a thousand essays for the question of what strength is. She's their foundation. I'll hear nothing else.
Here is part of my review: won't recap, but I'll definitely say in many ways this isn't an easy read. And it would be easy to malign Fitz for his choices and seemingly constant rejection of Millie, but part of why this book worked was that he, too, was rejected time and again by her. I'm not sure why he'd think anything but what he thought, and his appreciation of her really did ring true from the very early 'bricks' of their relationship. He maintains respect, honesty, and friendship for his wife in a lovely way.
And friendship is such a lovely foundation, isn't it? I think the choices in this book were brave and made for a unique plot. It would be easy to have Fitz hung up on his long forgotten lover but Thomas made her available to him, and in the end that's what set this book apart.
So a couple random paragraphs there, but in the end I'll just say this: I loved their quiet humor, I loved their quiet strength, and I loved their quiet and powerful love.
3rd Place: Love in the Afternoon by Lisa Kleypas, 2010; M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/expatb
This is one of my favorite books by her. And I think I've re-read it as many times as I have read my other favorites by Kleypas, which is saying something since the others were published 15 years prior. I absolutely adored the epistolary, Cyrano feel to the beginning of the book. It set up everything so beautifully.
I think this is one of the first historical romances that I read that dealt with PTSD after a war. I thought it was handled really well. It wasn't cured by a magical vagina, nor some crackpot remedy. It was work and patience.
I Love Beatrix and Christopher, they are so great together. Everything about this book hits the spot for me. It's so good!
Best Erotic Romance - Nomination Thread
1st Place: Priest by Sierra Simone, 2015; CR, M/F; nominated by u/canquilt
This book is elegant, deep, and sexy. Simone gives the main character a crisis of conscience and forces him to choose between personal happiness and his religious community. She weaves theological aspects with sexual ones and does it very artfully. The sex scenes themselves are absolutely out of this world.
2nd Place: Desperate Measures by Katee Robert, 2019; M/F, CR; nominated by u/expatb
Wow, this book packs a punch! This was the first book I've read by Katee Robert and it knocked me upside the head and then pushed me around. I honestly went into this book thinking I wasn't going to like it because I didn't want my childhood to be destroyed. Who knew I wanted Jasmine and Jafar together? Who knew that a sex club run by Hades would be fascinating? (Seriously, though, he's really the only one who could run this club!). And Whoooo-boy was this book hot! It has since spawned six books in the same universe.
Robert knows how to keep the focus so close, in that there's not a lot of external factors, or movement. So much of the plot takes place in an apartment, but it doesn't feel claustrophobic for a minute. That takes talent. And Katee Robert has it.
3rd Place (tie): For Real by Alexis Hall, 2018; CR, M/M; nominated by u/jrooknroll
This book is both sexy and sweet. The writing is incredible. I think this is Hall’s best work.
Added thoughts by u/eros_bitersweet
The erotica is absolutely central to the relationship and drives its progression. Firstly, the expected personas of the dom and sub are completely swapped: Laurie is the half of the partnership powerful IRL with his job in medicine, while Toby is the young, relatively innocent side of the couple who is finding his path in life. In one scene of the novel, Toby really does need Laurie to take charge of a chaotic situation at work, so he can get through it without quitting. And yet Toby is perfectly capable of rubbing shoulders with the educated crowd at Oxford and feeling comfortable, more able to charm them and impress them than Laurie with his knowledge and talent. Who you are in the outside world does not dictate how you experience desire and intimacy.
It's also not just that the kink illustrates what the characters want: the BDSM in this book is also about how they exchange vulnerability. This novel is really about the experience of vicarious desire. Individual longing for the other is layered on top of anticipation of the other's desire, then satisfaction at seeing that desire experienced, a dynamic which zings back and forth between the pair, giving and taking and giving, until it culminates in an overabundance of both feeling and erotic experience.comment continues here (shortened for overall post length)
3rd Place (tie): The Kiss Quotient by Helen Hoang, 2018; CR, M/F; nominated by u/seantheaussie
THE most popular romance book of the past few years who's appeal is based upon its heat. You know full well that even though you are not on the spectrum like Stella, you wish Michael was servicing you.
Historical - General - Only one nomination, no thread.
The Haunting of Maddy Clare by Simone St. James, 2012; M/F, open door; nominated by u/DancingMarshmallow
I’m nominating this because, while including some paranormal/ghost story elements, it has such lovely attention to detail and its setting of 1920s England: the clothes, the cars, the technology, WWI, the changing culture (especially women entering the work force in more ways). I also love that it uses the setting in a non-stereotypical way. Yes, this is the Roaring 20s, but no gangsters or flappers to be had here. And the setting matters, which I think is important in HR. The basic plot could happen in another time, but the setting isn’t just window dressing here: it influences how our characters act and think. chef’s kiss
Best Romantic Suspense - Nomination Thread
1st Place: Tinderbox by Rachel Grant, 2017; CR, M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/expatb
This was the first book that I read by Grant, based on a recommendation from this sub and it did not disappoint! I absolutely love reading about capable heroes and heroines. I also love when an author shows their intelligence on a topic and I fell that Grant’s experience as an archaeologist in the horn of Africa is apparent in this book. Talk about competence porn!
The fact that this book (and series) is set in an area that is not commonly seen in romance novels, and on that I admittedly know little about, made it so much better for me. I love having unique “experiences” through my reading when in reality I would most likely not be able to go to a place, etc.
The romance of this book is great! It’s hot and it front and center and quick and snappy. Just what I want when I want a plot with lots of action and some shenanigans.
2nd Place: The Search by Nora Roberts , 2010; CR, M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/expatb
This is probably one of the last books I’ve read by Roberts. I have since moved on from bingeing all of her books right as they hit the shelves. But she has to be acknowledged as an author who knows her craft. Admittedly, it’s been a long while since I’ve read this book, but I do have very distinct images and impressions in my head of when I read it. And I feel that that alone is a testament to Robert’s ability to create a story that sticks with you. The atmosphere that she created in this book is what sticks with me the most. In a suspense novel, I personally think that the atmosphere should be a leading character, and this book delivers. I also like to read about a character in distress and the love interest who doesn’t want anyone, but can’t help but make moves to protect the other. Swoon
3rd Place: Firestorm (Flashpoint #3) by Rachel Grant, 2018; CR, M/F, Open Door; nominated by u/seantheaussie
Contains a member of my Pantheon of Heroines and she, and her Hero, Get. Shit. Done. whether standing shoulder to shoulder, back to back or penis in vagina (to be honest only one thing gets accomplished in that last position, but it is VERY accomplished.)
Whew! If you've actually read through this whole thing, thank you! And I hope you enjoyed the past 10 weeks or so of discussions. Thanks again to all!
Edit: thanks for all the love! Hope this fills your TBR a bit more. Happy reading!!
submitted by Expatb to RomanceBooks [link] [comments]


2020.10.27 16:10 mrkisme What should I think about people who refuse to be tested

I'm still waiting for my conclusive results to come back. That said, something is def wrong with my dick. I've only ever been with five women. My current partner, my Mormon ex of 7 years, and three others. Mormon ex didn't give me herpes. Current partner is waiting for her test results.
I called the other three women early on just to give then a heads up, verify their "clean status", and talk openly because I felt I had a good relationship with each of them despite no longer being romantically involved. All three women have since expressed zero interest in being tested themselves. Wtf? Are they being irresponsible? Giving into doctor's "it isn't a big deal"? If I have herpes then at least one of them is asymptomatic and spreading. Why don't they care? Are they bad for not caring or are they just embracing the idea that "it's super common and almost everyone has it anyway"?
If it's not a big deal then why do we stress about it so much and make dramatic disclosure convos? If it is a big deal then these three women kinda suck, right?
submitted by mrkisme to Herpes [link] [comments]


2020.10.21 16:10 PlanitL Humanist Global Charity wants to help former Mormons - contacts needed

I’ve recently become a board member for Humanist Global Charity and we are exploring the possibility of helping victims of Mormonism. Some examples might include helping a former polygamous wife start a small business, or contributing to the basic necessities for an LGBT youth that was kicked out of their Mormon home.
If you know of people or organizations we can partner with to make this happen, please comment or message me. (Yes I have already messaged Lindsay Hansen Park!)
Nothing is set in stone but as an Ex-Mormon it’s my job to do an exploratory mission and find some contacts (social workers, activists, other nonprofits) who can identify people who need help being freed from the shackles of Mormonism.
Thanks in advance.
submitted by PlanitL to exmormon [link] [comments]


2020.10.20 00:11 ImTheMarmotKing Faith Crises: Is loss of faith inevitable?

This post is inspired by (but not really a response to) a few posts circulating here and on the faithful reddit about whether or not you can ever "come back" after a faith crisis, and whether loss of faith is unavoidable after seriously confronting the issues. I think it's a fair set of questions. The conventional wisdom among the post-mormon community is that you "can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle" once you've lost belief. However, this framing is often challenged by others (usually believers) who claim they have seen it happen. So what gives?
This is a topic that gets a lot of ink in the Mormon internet community, and I acknowledge the self-indulgence in creating a new thread on it, but I feel like I have some thoughts to contribute. My thoughts on this topic are entirely a result of personal observation in both mormon and postmormon communities. It is not the result of any kind of rigorous analysis, although I think such a thing would be worthwhile to anyone who had the means and the time.

There are multiple types of faith crises

Much of the difference of opinion comes from the fact that when believers and post-mormons disagree on this topic, they are often talking about completely different experiences that they both describe as "faith crises." When you go to /mormon, /exmormon or listen to a MormonStories 10 hour marathon with a recently disaffected member, and someone uses the term "faith crisis," they usually mean a very specific type of faith crisis. So let's talk about them, how they seem to happen, and how immutable they really are.

The "Rebellious Teen" faith crisis

When I was growing up, I wasn't much aware of intellectual exmormons and the issues that bother them, but I was very familiar with the "rebellious teen" faith crisis. This kind of faith crisis tends to have a few qualities:
Do they ever come back? Yes. I couldn't say the exact percentage, but it is rather common to see them come back to activity. They tend to have these characteristics when they do:

The "just kinda drifted away" inactive

I don't call this one a faith crisis since it doesn't really involve any kind of crisis per se. Many people just kind of drift away, often as young adults when they move out of their parents home, and go inactive. Sometimes they were raised Mormon, but never quite took to Mormonism, and once on their own, it just becomes a footnote to their life. Their inactivity is more about lack of momentum than anything else. Many will still maintain their testimony in spite of not practicing at all. They sometimes get lumped into exmormon/postmormon/inactive discussions simply because they're inactive, but the experience is quite different.

The Mini-Faith Crisis

I hope that doesn't sound dismissive, but I call it a mini-faith crisis because it's a miniature version of the kind of faith crisis we're discussing here. These people don't go as far down the rabbit hole and never reach the point of no return (more on that later). Some characteristics:

The "Intellectual Faith Crisis"

When a post-mormon says there's "no going back" or that there's "no believing in Santa Claus again," this is the type of faith crisis they are referring to. A few characteristics:
Do they ever come back? Rarely, and when they do, they don't come back as orthodox believers. Most of the time, when counter-examples are proffered, they are not actually this kind of faith crisis at all, they are one of the other kinds. Here are a few examples from a thread on the faithful subreddit dedicated to this topic:
" I have also seen many return to faith. The thing that these folks often but not always have in common is that they often left the church when they were younger, did not serve missions, were not married in the temple, and after having children, felt like something is missing."
"Born into the church, never really had testimony and left. I wasn't anti-Mormon, but I would certainly not say I had a positive view of the church either."
"I seriously doubted my faith at the tail end of high school. I spent a week away with a group that was really strong in spirit and when I returned home I realize that the spirit was missing from my life. I decided to make several changes, and was immensely blessed for it. "
"I went inactive around my 18th birthday, and was inactive for nearly a decade... Despite going inactive, I never lost faith in Heavenly Father or Jesus Christ."
"I came back after 8 years. I stopped attending after I read some stuff on web sites. Never had my records removed, but I went cold turkey as far as attending and paying tithing. I'm back now, but my testimony is different."
There are a few examples from the thread that might be examples of the "intellectual faith crisis," but there's not enough information in the descriptions to know for sure, for example:
"I had a long faith crisis, I struggled doubt and fear for a long time. It eventually would get to the point where I questioned if Christ and God even existed. As I wandered around my kitchen, I dropped to my knees and uttered a simple prayer asking if God was there and if he was real. The spirit overcame me and I burst into tears, that wasn't the end of the fear and doubt but It was the jumping of point for me to create my unshakable testimony today."
"After joining reddit a bunch of years ago, I was confronted with an onslaught of online militant atheism while also being reminded of some of our more troubling history. I had a faith crisis. It was prolonged. For a time, I fully lost my faith... I experimented on the word. I began to have, over time, so spiritual experiences. And then more."

The Point of No Return

I refer to the point of no return to answer two questions: can you ever come back after experiencing an "intellectual faith crisis?" Does everyone who learns this damaging information have a loss of faith?
I think it's clear that exposure to faith-negative information does not necessarily lead to disaffection. Many apologists have been wading in that pool for decades. And it's not exactly uncommon for longtime apologists to one day turn into critics, so something beyond mere exposure has to explain the phenomenon.
What I've noticed in my conversations with post-Mormons is there is almost always a moment where the doubter seriously concedes to themselves that the church might not be true. I call this the point of no return - not because they can't return to faithful church activity afterwards, but because whether or not they do, their faith will never return to an orthodox, General Conference approved status. They will never again sit in Sunday School and unabashedly proclaim that the Book of Mormon is a historical document and that the LDS church is the only true church on the face of the earth. They will move on to a "nuanced faith," which can take a lot of forms, but it simply won't take the form that your Stake President is likely comfortable with. One can argue it's a more "mature" faith, but whether or not that's true, it's also not the kind of faith the church teaches or that is generally safe to share in church. That's why I call it the point of no return. I have seen plenty of examples of people who make their faith work after experiencing an intellectual faith crisis and passing the point of no return - I have yet to see an example of someone returning to full orthodoxy.
Even that path seems to be rare, though. While it's trivial to list examples of people going through an intellectual faith crisis and becoming post-mormons, we frequently field the question of whether or not anyone ever goes back, and Don Bradley is the one example that is always offered. Bradley can be a little coy about what his faith looks like, but even he has acknowledged he has passed the point of no return. In his ama, he stated:
In a sense it's true what ex-Mormons say, that you can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. But what if the broken fragments of the simple story of Mormon history actually fit together into a larger picture than the one we first had--if missing pieces of that puzzle can be provided that, when fit together, show that the actual picture was far more vast than we'd ever thought?
So, mere exposure to information is not necessarily the point of no return. It can be, for many people, in that the exposure is enough to convince them to seriously re-evaluate the church's truth claims. But for many of us, we sat with these issues for a long time before admitting we weren't sure if the church was true. Often something else has to happen in your life just to allow yourself to admit the possibility. Many apologists seem to go their whole lives dealing in the same information, but never seriously allowing for that possibility. In one recent thread on the faithful forum, the contributors brag about how the information has never caused them any serious reconsideration.
It's worth noting that many people go through multiple different types of faith crisis. I can think of people I know who went through both a rebellious teen crisis and then eventually a full on intellectual faith crisis. I think perhaps most of us go through miniature faith crises at some point in our lives. But the intellectual faith crisis is usually the final one, not an intermediate one.

Why does it matter?

I'm not sure it does, but it seems to generate a lot of interest from believers and post-mormons alike. On the post-mormon side, I think there's a yearning for validation that their decision was the rational one, and the only one they reasonably could have made. On the believing side, I sense some disquietude and insecurity about the phenomenon, and a desire to reassure themselves that it's not a serious or permanent problem. It's difficult to put a number on it, since the few statistics I do know merely track activity in the church rather than what kind of faith transition members went through. I doubt the number of people going through this "intellectual apostasy" is significant compared to the number of converts that don't stick, teens that just kind of stop going and grow out of it once they leave home, etc. However, the thing about the intellectual apostasy is that it primarily affects prominent, active members. We are somewhat used to and callous towards the steady march of recent converts and fringy youth out the door, but when Ward Mission Leaders and Elders Quorum Presidents and Relief Society Presidents start leaving and taking their family with them, it causes more alarm and discomfort. While the raw number may not be impressive, their relative importance is much higher to local members, more shocking, and the number seems to be increasing.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
submitted by ImTheMarmotKing to mormon [link] [comments]


2020.10.19 17:37 ModulusOperandi I wish my doubts and fears could be swept away so easily

Just posting my anxiety here... I haven't been to church in a while, which is normal these days I guess, but I'm in Utah. I was visiting a friend for lunch and he drove straight to church afterward, so I joined him. It's not a big deal to me, and it doesn't take much not to be invested these days. I'm a classical trained musician so I don't mind singing either. So we began singing one of the lines in the hymns about something simple like Christ is the Savior, and I felt a swell of heightened emotion as I uttered those words.
I imagined being a believer, or even a semi-believer, fantasizing that such feelings conveyed truth in some way. It felt so out of character for me as a scientist, who struggles every day trying to uncover truth in every possible way and knowing how difficult and confusing that process is. It was a swell of comfort, as if suddenly "remembering" my inner testimony had fixed all of my problems. I do have a myriad of problems, and certainly believing in some imaginary spirituality might give me a boost, even a reason to live. But I could have said anything really, like that my ex still loves me, and felt that wave of deception. The music is written that way for a reason too.
I don't have children, but I see other children in the church, so incredibly happy with their parents leading the way. It makes me wonder how I would lead children I brought any into the world. I get the feeling that creating my children in the first place is doing them a disfavor, but I bet they could make the world a better place, just as we hope all children can do. Those children I see, they are so happy believing in something untrue. My family all still believes, even my lines of fathers who are also scientists. So I know that some of them have gotten away with shrouding themselves in faith their entire lives. But how could I live like that? And how could I know that my children could stand it? The church doesn't add up for me. But if I ignored what I've discovered, over I would be ignorantly happier than I am now, but when someone presents heaps of evidence that everything I believe is wrong, how can I just refuse to doubt? How much easier would my life be now that my life is almost half-lived, to live out my days reveling in church practices and comraderie? It does seem like a normal-ish religion on the outside without digging deeply, but knowing me I have to dig deep. I don't regret doing so. It was a transformative experience for me. But I don't like being alone either. I cherish my friends, which haven't been easy to come across, but we don't share beliefs, and that makes me feel different. And I have difficulty finding a partner for the same reason.
I should move, yes and I will. I'm finishing up my degree, though I don't feel quite free yet during this pandemic. I'm so afraid of what the future has for me. That will be hard for a guy only familiar with Mormon culture. I wish I could have a wave of sweeping comfort to pull me through. But that no longer seems to work on me.
submitted by ModulusOperandi to exmormon [link] [comments]


2020.10.02 23:12 theberlinmall How can I help my partner, an ex-Mormon who came out later in life, gain a greater sense of self-acceptance with his new gay identity? Looking for documentaries, movies, books, etc.

My partner (57) and I (31) both came out last year upon meeting each other, which resulted in a lot of huge changes to our lives as we transitioned from married straight men to partnered gay men. Other important context--he used to be very involved in the Mormon church, but after a lot of experiences that opened his eyes to what he had signed up for, he made a break with the church (in the year before we met).
Although he has left the formal belief system a while ago this cultural relic remains behind of relentlessly shaming himself for being a "bad" person and thinking it's wrong to love himself when he's not "normal." Last night he told me that even though he loves me and couldn't be prouder to be next to me, he still feels disgusted with himself and wishes he could just be straight. He goes to therapy and I try to get him to talk with me about it when he's having a tough time, but still so far he's having a hard time shaking it. It kills me for him!
Here's the thing-- he's a very aspirational person who gets inspired by stories, and I can feel his inner child is just hungry for some heroes and some culture and legacy to learn about and feel proud of. Because this was all so taboo for so long, he has a very one-dimensional and ahistorical view of queer culture, and I feel like this is such a great channel for helping to inspire some new growth.
So the question is, what documentaries, movies, books, etc. helped you to gain your footing as a gay man/ queer person? Who are some awesome heroes you've learned about or stories that made you see what it means to be a queer person (an emphasis on gay men just so it might be more immediately relatable to him, but if there are others who really blew you away I'm not picky)? I'm asking anyone, but especially the ex-Mormons out there or those of you who had some deeper ex-straight guy complexes.
Thanks for your help with this!
submitted by theberlinmall to AskGaybrosOver30 [link] [comments]


2020.09.29 07:51 Narcissism23 Breakup with my (28M) exbpso (27F) has caused a rift between her family from being friends with me.

I posted recently here as I was trying to get some understanding as to how BP might have been affecting my situation, and how the breakup went down as I'm still without clear answers. I've spent the last few weeks trying to gain perspective and move on but still, I'm tormented by so many different things.
Recently, after my ex left me, I have tried to get in contact and chat with her family. Her mother has been reluctant to do so, understandably, however I've still wanted to make sure my ex was ok. As a sufferer of BP2 I had the impression that this could have been a factor at play, so I wanted to make sure my ex was taking her meds etc. Her mom has said is very difficult as my ex tends to shut herself away and her apartment has a security door at the front that needs a code so it's difficult to get in and check up on her. She doesn't often go to family events, and busies herself a lot to, quote "Stop the depression from creeping in". I've worried about this a lot, as I know she overwhelms herself which cannot be good for her mental health and gives her no time to tackle the issues of her mind.
Regardless of that I still kept in contact with her older brother and his partner, who have been very supportive, and have understood more clearly about the actions of my ex. They are not impressed or happy with the way she broke up with me, and showed me how she told the family (There is a 7 hour time zone difference and 15 minutes after my ex left me a message and blocked me everywhere, she told her family chat that "we" broke up, despite the fact I was asleep still, so they knew before me). They've tried before to intervene and sit down with the family and my ex to talk about her actions and the way she distances herself, but the mother always blocks that, afraid it will push my ex further away from the family. What doesn't help is that my ex is ex-mormon, which she had a disagreement with her mother about, a sore subject, but my ex feels she needs to hide anything she does that breaches the Mormon ways from her mother.
A few days ago, I reached out to her mother and her younger brother to try and get help, to beg them to sit down with her and discuss her actions. I felt my ex had abandoned me, and the way in which she did things I feel was not fair, as nothing that came prior to this break up led me to believe she was going to leave, even to the point where 2 days prior she said I wouldn't lose her, and 5 days prior she said that "Whatever it is, we will make it work". I feel so strongly that she wanted our relationship to continue, despite the distance and COVID getting in the way of me visiting. However, the more I look back the more I start to feel she was just trying to keep me sweet so that I wouldn't leave.
Anyway, after reaching out, her younger brother came back with a long message, boiling down to them not taking any action. Despite the fact it feels she lied to them about the breakup, and may have painted a bad image of me further, and I tried to highlight this, they wouldn't do a thing. Understandably so. However the older brother's partner has had a lot of conversation with me about the issue, and they have been close. They seem to be able to see the issues here and the way my ex has acted, being not too dissimilar to previous relationships. They informed me of a lot of things I was unaware of, where she would, in her previous marriage, tell her husband she was at her parents, and tell her parents she was at home, when actually she had just disappeared. She was unmedicated at the time which could have had some effect. They also said how they feel that the mother still treats my ex like a child and I do see how my ex has acted pretty childish at times. One thing that comes to mind, is around valentines day and her birthday, I sent over a gift to her for both, and she had said she had one for me too. It never got sent on time because she insisted she had to get hold of a certain gift to put in it, and it seemed to take forever for her to find it. It never got sent so I said I would just pick it up when I go there next, which has planned to be April, but then COVID happened. It then turned into a Valentines Day / Birthday gift for me, which she said she was getting ready, as we hoped that by October, I'd be able to get there again. I never knew what it was in the end, but it feels like now, there never was a gift. She says it was by her front door ready to send, but I don't know how true that is, I never saw it and never received it. The only other point which stumped me, was her choice to get an IUD for what she says was our benefit. She had this done about a week before she left me, and it confuses me as to why you would go for that, for our supposed benefit, when you're planning to leave? She's tried to get it done at a time so it had had time to heal before I would got there in October (had COVID not been a thing), which makes sense, and she may not have wanted to leave then, and all of our conversation was loving right up to 6 hours before she left me. It was like a sudden flip. This is why I kind of connected it to potential Bipolar symptoms or PTSD, if she had an episode or as I suspected she wasn't taking her medication properly, because the change was sudden. Nothing led me to believe that this was coming at all.
To further note, my ex's father abandoned the family and was emotionally abusive towards my ex. She has diagnosed PTSD too so I can see the childish acting is much like a coping strategy. Adding PTSD into the mix I'm sure has caused further problems. She hasn't had any kind of trauma therapy as of yet.
Still, there was a party for her younger brother at the weekend and something went down, and so now, it seems that the older brother and his partner can no longer be friends with me, due to the family. I got a message from the older brother to say he wasn't happy with the situation but his position in the family makes it untenable. I would guess this is due to how, because of the breakup, my ex has painted this image of me, or they are in denial that my ex has some real struggles with BP that are affecting her daily. So now the whole family has moved away from me, despite the friendship I had with the older brother and his partner.
I'm not sure whether my ex's bipolar has been affecting this the entire time. I have looked back at the relationship and felt like I was strung along by her, because her communication sucked. She couldn't ever open up to me and pretty much refused help or said there was nothing I could do when things came up. Even then, she could never seem to make a regular time for us to talk and I feel I was bending my schedule around hers. We did video call, maybe once every 2/3 weeks, but it was very difficult as she was always busy. She would drop conversations half way through and would return between 1-4 hours later, without a word as to where she went. I don't think she was cheating on me, but I cannot rule it out.
I just can't understand why someone in a relationship would show a genuine want to the relationship, continually, only to abandon it at the drop of a hat. I would have thought that if she truly cared, she'd have the decency to talk it out. She said that she blocked me, in her last message, as she knew I would convince her to stay, yet she was always saying how much she wanted to be with me and that we would work things out, that I wouldn't lose her.
Any thoughts? Because I'm confused as hell still, despite over the last few days trying to find some closure in myself by highlighting what wasn't good, how I was putting in a lot of effort for not a lot of return. I kept my emotions open and clear, involved her in my life and the new house I've bought, with regards to decorating it as she has stated time and time again that she wanted to move here to be with me. I feel strung along, but I can't prove it's not something else and possibly if she has been so overwhelmed she stopped taking her meds, and it's had a knock on effect.
EDIT: I thought I should mention something my ex did do for me, although a while back in February when she visited. She woke up in the night and made a bunch of post it notes with all sorts of positive comments about me and our relationship, and stuck them on my wall. I've now turned them into a framed piece of art, before things got this got messier. I wanted to keep the hope alive, but looking at all the words now, I feel like some of them were lies, including the one where she says "You make me want to be better". It bites hard because in some respects, the relationship was sliding further down hill since then. I just don't know what to believe, where there was so much love and wanting to be together, for it just to end in an instant, without mutual discussion, without any hint it was going that way. Most people, if they really care about a person, would sit and talk. If she didn't have the capability to change for the better, then say so.
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2020.09.28 22:57 OphidianEtMalus I had a moment as I read the "Hearts Pierced" article in the current Ensign so I made a first-draft parody of it by inserting a few lines here and there. Basically this is the opposite of a TL;DR but maybe it will make reading the article more fun/useful for some.

Really, some of this original article is pretty good, especially the "How can I help?" section. But, it's so full of gas-lighting, lack of self-awareness, etc, that it's ripe for parody. THis is definatly a quick first draft but I hope you enjoy it:
Recently I was called by a broken-hearted father. His daughter Donna (names have been changed) was away at college in a new relationship, and it was moving fast. Her boyfriend, Boyd, had prayed about their relationship and was pushing for marriage and limiting Donna’s communication with her parents. Donna apologized to them, explaining it as Boyd’s strong love and desire to spend time as a couple, preparing for a divine heterosexual union.
Donna’s family became concerned when they discovered that Boyd had a deceased ex-wife, and a living ex-wife and child he had not mentioned to Donna. They wanted to know the status of these women's eternal sealing to Boyd. Would Donna become a first, second or third wife? Lacking any sense of boundaries but having access to a network of ward directories, Donna’s family called the ex-wife, who said Boyd had an ugly temper, was jealous and suspicious of same-sex friendships, and demanding regular service of his “Little Factory.” When Boyd found out about the call he became righteously enraged. He said Donna’s parents were “controlling” and cited a time they disapproved of a sarcastic joke he made about Donna’s recent contribution in ward council. Boyd insisted that Donna start acting like the mother and help-meet she was intended to be by making her own decisions to follow his patriarchal council and cutting off her family. Donna’s parents were desperate as their calls and texts were now going unanswered.
Everyone wants a happy family, but even when people try to live the gospel, relationships can become hurtful. Some challenges are a result of the misunderstandings and frictions common to families. However, in healthy relationships, both people and institutions apologize for poor behavior and mend rifts, while in unhealthy situations, there are ongoing patterns of harshness or maltreatment that become abusive.

Domestic Abuse and the Gospel

“Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives and lost the confidence of your children” (Jacob 2:35).
Abuse consists of actions intended to hurt or control. If the party that hurts or controls you didn’t intend to cause harm then, as the saying goes, no foul. True abuse consists of a range of behaviors that may include control of the victim’s behavior, access to information, thoughts, and emotions, commonly abbreviated as BITE. Such control may be manifest as neglect, manipulation, verbal criticisms, and physical or sexual violence.1 Our theological siblings, the FLDS, use the term “Keep sweet” to summarize the ways they expect traumatized members to behave. Unfortunately, abusive behaviors are common, with some scholars estimating that about a quarter of children worldwide are mistreated physically, sexually or emotionally.2 Adults also have high rates of victimization, with approximately 1 in 4 women and 1 in 10 men experiencing physical violence from a spouse.
Abuse can happen in any relationship, and both men and women can be perpetrators. However, priesthood holders are more likely to be controlling and to commit severe emotional, physical and sexual violence, and women are more likely to be terrorized, dominated, or badly hurt by a spouse. 3
Abuse harms the soul of both the offender and the victim and, when perpetrated outside of one’s priesthood stewardship, is contrary to the teachings of the Savior. Modern prophets have stated that those “who abuse spouse or offspring … will one day stand accountable before God.”4 Abusers may ignore or exploit principles of the gospel but more often, they simply follow the examples of their own fathers and leaders. Commonly they use passive aggression and emotional manipulation. For this, there is some excuse because the church does not incorporate lessons on positive behaviour in any of our regular, correlated lesson times. Nor has the church until very recently, provided any sort of training on how to recognize and prevent abuse. It should be noted that our current training in almost entirely inadequate and, in the jurisdictions of many members, some of the advice given is actually contrary to the law. For example, I counseled a couple where the husband pursued emotional affairs and gambled away their savings, but instead of apologizing, he pressured his wife to forgive and insisted she had the “greater sin” if she didn’t forgive him. He dismissed her pain and claimed he was right with God or he wouldn’t be a temple worker. When his wife talked to Church leaders, he downplayed his betrayals and exaggerated her concerns, saying she was depressed. The husband was rejecting “principles of … respect, love, [and] compassion”5 and mistreating his wife. Her efforts to live gospel principles could not fix a problem he was creating. When allegations of child abuse surfaced, I was able to call our lawfirm, rather than alert the relevant authorieis, but that is because I live in Utah.
Each of us can give in to unhealthy behaviors. There are certain characteristics common to all types of abuse, and the more severe and frequent these are, the less healthy the relationship will be. Here are five of these typical abusive patterns that can help you recognize unhealthy behaviors in yourself and others.

1. Cruelty

“With their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: … [their] mouth is full of cursing and bitterness” (Romans 3:13–14).
One woman came to see me for therapy against the wishes of her husband, who mocked her for “needing to trust the Lord.” At church she was friendly and devout, but at home she wondered if if she would be her husbands second wife or not. She spent every day on the phone with her mother, where they talked about their role in the priesthood and seemed to be questioning the Brethren. Critical people feel justified in causing pain and “love to have others suffer” (Doctrine and Covenants 121:13) and she certainly belittled his patriarchal role by attempting to require a monogamous, co-equal relationship. Such family members break Jesus’s commands to “judge not” and “condemn not” (Luke 6:37) as they belittle, show disgust, or call names. Following the example of a senior apostle, I just chuckled at her concerns and ask that you do the same.

2. Deception

“Thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God” (Alma 30:42).
Deception pervades abuse as perpetrators minimize their actions, blame others, and twist words. Such deception is popularly termed “gaslighing” and used to good effect throughout the correlated materials of the church. This bewilders victims, as one of my research participants described: “[My husband would] freak out and then do the apologizing thing and then say, ‘Well it’s your fault anyway’ … on and on until I started believing that.”6 This denial of another’s reality is called gaslighting, and it leaves victims confused and insecure about their memories and opinions. Like other forms of deception, gaslighting is used to manipulate conversations and put forth a false front. As a church leader, you might use the phrase “I can’t think of a time when I didn’t know…” when someone asks about Brother Joseph’s polygamy or any of the other issues touched lightly upon in the Essays.
Those who abuse others vigorously resist admitting that they are hurtful and often will claim they are victims. When Donna expressed unease about Boyd’s criticism of her parents, he got angry and insisted she was “insulting” him. Boyd was among “those who cry transgression … and are the children of disobedience themselves” (Doctrine and Covenants 121:17). He not only promoted his false story but also resented the truth.7

3. Excuses

“Acknowledge your faults and that wrong which ye have done” (Alma 39:13).
A humble person feels regret at hurting others and repents and does better. Someone who is abusive resists the call of conscience with excuses. As a proud and wooden member of the twelve was careful to emphasize “I know that the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them. We sometimes look back on issues and say, 'Maybe that was counterproductive for what we wish to achieve,' but we look forward and not backward." The church doesn't "seek apologies," he said, "and we don't give them."
Similarly, one of my research participants recalled, “I’d feel horrible about the physical abuse, and then later I would think it might not have happened if she would have just kept her mouth shut.”
In therapy, I once told a wife that I had never witnessed her showing godly sorrow for years of criticizing her husband. Her response was not regret but sulking: “Great, here is another thing I am not doing!” Abusive people reject responsibility and are touchy and defensive. They are easily offended by small things. All three of these people noted “that the word "apology" doesn't appear in LDS scriptures. Their “sorrowing was not unto repentance” (Mormon 2:13) but instead was pushed aside with bitter anger and blame the way our leaders and their law firm have taught us.
In a recent masterstroke of proper application of these principles, a woman credibly accused a Bishop of sexual impropriety and obtained a confession. In response, our organization facilitated the collection and dissemination of information about her and her adopted daughter in a way that caused them to withdraw from the public discussion in a shower of accusations, shame, and distrust. It’s like the accusations never happened and the Bishop can continue his backroom service.

4. Pride

“In lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves” (Philippians 2:3).
Pride includes entitlement and self-centeredness. One man is recorded in the History of the CHurch as stating “ I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” If people’s opinions didn’t comply with his, they were “undermining” him or “not being obedient” and he might even break their printing press. Today we simply tell you to “doubt your doubts” and excommunicate you or otherwise harm your reputation. Pride is competitive and focused on power and winning. It is not a disruptive same-sex parade. In contrast, a healthy family is cooperative, where there is a balance of fairness, and members “deal justly one with another” (4 Nephi 1:2). Spouses should be equal partners (but not, of course, when it comes to the priesthood),8 where each has a say and all opinions are valued.

5. Control

“When we … exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, … the heavens withdraw themselves” (Doctrine and Covenants 121:37).
Although we value agency, it is surprising how often family members tell each other how to think, feel, and act. A you should have learned in chapter 35 of the Gospel Principles manual “It is better to obey the commandments because we fear punishment than not to obey them at all.” Some even control through intimidation, shame, withdrawal of love, or threats. Don’t believe me--mock up a letter from QuitMormo with your name highlighted and show your closest relatives. Do you think their love will remain unchanged? One husband had rigid expectations that his wife should prepare breakfast every day at a certain time (usually cracked wheat), meet specific intimate requests (it’s ok Sister, we rescinded that prohibition in 1982), and listen to him regarding his “concerns,” which usually involved how she could improve because she was home all day while he had to work. He monitored her spending and became angry if she didn’t quickly respond to his texts. It is not her place to consider polyandry, even if it’s just through some day-time TV.
Another mother expressed regular disappointment to her teenage daughter any time the girl showed he shoulders or didn’t live up to the mother’s standards. If the expectations were not met, or if her husband expressed concerns, she icily gave everyone the silent treatment. Again, though we don’t explicitly use the term “Keep sweet” you know what it means and you’d better keep up those appearances.

Hope and Healing

“I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee” (2 Kings 20:5).
Although abuse is heartbreaking, change is always possible. Victims can reach out to spiritual and professional resources, including non-church therapists, and seek the power of the state's legal process to heal their wounds, if not their bank account. To find help, go to https://www.reddit.com/exmormon/ , https://quitmormon.com/ , https://www.mormonstories.org/ , and even our own church resources at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/essays?lang=eng (though mind the ellipses and follow those footnotes) and for images of the original historical documents, try https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/
While we will never admit it to those who have been abused: You were always worthy, whole, and just. We should have responded to you with love and compassion. We failed. We suck.
Those of us who have been abusive must repent and seek help, unless they are church leaders or have been counselled otherwise by our lawyers. This requires going “down into the depths of humility” (3 Nephi 12:2) and accepting full responsibility for their behavior. Change takes more than short-term promises and surface efforts. The pain of deep repentance is soul-wrenching, and some will not be willing to do it, which leaves victims with difficult decisions about how to protect themselves.9
Our Heavenly Father is concerned about us just like the anguished father who called me about his daughter. God’s love is as “wide as eternity” (Moses 7:41), and He is deeply pained when His children hurt each other. In a tender conversation with Enoch, He weeps. “These thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, … and [I have] given commandment, that they should love one another, … but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood” (Moses 7:32–33). There is weeping in heaven and on earth when bodies and souls are wounded. Yet, with humility, God’s power, and professional help when necessary (which is more often than your bishop will admit), it is possible to stop damaging behavior and create a home of dignity, safety, and love.
“The voice that bears profound testimony, utters fervent prayer, and sings the hymns of Zion can be the same voice that berates and criticizes, embarrasses and demeans, inflicts pain and destroys the spirit of oneself and of others in the process. ‘Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing,’ James grieves.[James 3:10].” ‘My brethren [and sisters], check out my example! Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “The Tongue of Angels,” Ensign, May 2007, 16.
How Can I Help? For Friends and Leaders
“[We] are willing to mourn with those who mourn; yea, and comfort those who stand in need of comfort” (Mosiah 18:9) unless they accuse one who is in power or a male.”
Many of us know victims of abuse, whether we are aware of it or not. Leaders will be approached by hurting ward members, and almost everyone has friends or family who have been mistreated. We will provide no substantive training on how to work with such members. Outsiders are usually sympathetic but may not know how to help because they have never been exposed to cult-like behaviour. Here are guidelines to consider as we minister to those struggling.
Be supportive, not directive. It is disturbing to hear of pain, and we may react with strong emotions and advice, like: “You need to leave now” or, “contact a lawyer.” (This latter is reserved for Bishops and Stake Presidents in sticky situations). It is rarely helpful to push, unless people are physically unsafe or underage. In these cases, it is important to contact law enforcement, women’s shelters, or hotlines (but we won’t address this in any manuals.) When children witness or experience physical or sexual abuse, child protective services should also be notified. However, in most conflicts, victims benefit from support rather than force, which has the effect of silencing them or disrespecting their agency. Those in toxic situations face difficult choices and have usually considered them at length. Listen carefully to understand the details and ask questions rather than pile on pressure.
Don’t judge or preach. You are a judge in Zion and in the Church we have high ideals about families, and many feel like they aren’t living up to them. In families with problematic interactions, this gap can be magnified by you, leading to further shame and secrecy. Those who are desperate to make things better are often the ones being mistreated and blamed. Consider rescinding their temple recommend or sacramental rites. It can intensify self-blame when outsiders say things like: “Did you orgasm?” or “If you are patient and forgiving, I am sure it will get better.” This is one reason those in turmoil are hesitant to discuss it—they don’t want to be seen as a victim or feel worse about their own inadequacies and unworthyness.
Take it seriously. Some who open up about their mistreatment are met with skepticism or doubt by their bishops. This can happen because, again, there is no particular training for such relatively affluent, strong jawed, light skinned men. Such outsiders usually have incomplete and often flawed perceptions and lack of empathy. For example, there is a myth that violence is only committed by villains who look menacing. However, most abuse in families happens from otherwise typical folks who may present themselves well at church. We struggle with this reality. How can our friend who is an amiable reciter of Sunday School manuals also have a dark side at home? If a story doesn’t fit the preconceptions of the bishop, it may be dismissed or minimized. Yet research shows that false accusations of abuse, especially from those with less power in the family, are rare, and many victims don’t speak up at all. Take all abuse reports seriously and start from a position of belief.
Don’t rush to judgment. Leaders and professionals often hear contradictory stories from family members, and it is tempting to pick sides. In some cases, there are obvious victims and perpetrators, but in others there is fault on many sides and the truth is almost impossible to disentangle. Adding to the confusion is the reality that while it is important to believe victims, many who abuse are charming and will also claim they are victimized and may paint their victims as aggressors. For example, a controlling spouse may preempt a visit to a bishop or therapist by calling ahead to plant damaging stories against their partner. Outsiders often assume they can detect lies, but chronic deceivers wear a facade very convincingly. The Lord warns leaders of “hypocrites among you, who have deceived some” (Doctrine and Covenants 50:7), and at times this deception is confusing to those trying to help.
Watch for red flags. There are endless variations of how mistreatment occurs in families, but there are certain warning signs that should be discussed in more depth if a leader or friend hears them. These include the elements presented in this article: cruelty, deception, excuses, pride, and control. Additionally, it is a bad sign if there is jealousy, monitoring, badgering, highly contradictory stories, coercion related to intimacy or money, or a refusal to get help. Any physical or sexual violence should always be taken seriously and discussed with professionals. If minors are involved as victims or witnesses, the abuse must be reported.
Fortunately, domestic abuse rates are decreasing in many countries because people are breaking free of the arbitrary religious rules that bind the helpless to their abusers, and public awareness of all types of assault is on the rise and laws (that we occasionally flaunt) are being passed to penalize abusers.10 However, many still suffer alone, and “the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God” (Jacob 2:35). Let us reach out to these hurting hearts with Christlike love and support.
submitted by OphidianEtMalus to exmormon [link] [comments]


2020.09.24 13:59 JBL_0 Mexican drug cartels could mess up the country’s most important lithium project

Mexican drug cartels could mess up the country’s most important lithium project
By Ben Heubl Engineering &Technology Magazine Published Tuesday, September 22, 2020

Mexico’s first lithium mine could be the nation’s insurance that it will profit from the global energy transition, or be evidence that it can’t handle the mining business. The firm in charge seems to be ignoring challenges that, if left unaddressed, could make Mexico miss out on a chance of a lifetime.
Over a decade ago, the country celebrated when a firm spotted 800,000 tonnes of lithium in the ground of central Mexico, but it wasn’t prepared for the lucky strike that was yet to come. In 2014, minerals company Bacanora Minerals Ltd hit the jackpot by locating reserves 10 times this size.
Found underground in the northern desert state of Sonora, Mexico, an arid region measuring 1.4 times the size of England, was just “above eight million tonnes” of the white gold – 250 years’ worth of resource – Bacanora claims. Sonora’s reserves alone can compete with entire countries (see graphic); Chile, for instance, with its nine million tonnes, is one of the top lithium exporters. In 2022, when extraction is due to begin, Sonora Lithium’s (SLL) supply will be almost as important.

The risk of a shortfall in lithium supply is rising, experts say. Covid-19 has played some part. There are now more bottlenecks in the market than before the pandemic; more so because of the larger macro-economic trends that keep lithium prices low and detract investments from the industry. Lithium is essential for electric vehicles and batteries, for instance. As one of the few lithium mines in the Americas – as opposed to lithium brine extraction in the South and the US – SLL could support electrifying transport towards net-zero locally.
Bacanora’s CEO Peter Secker spoke to E&T; he doesn’t hide his pride in the firm’s progress: “We are doing reasonably well.” He says it usually takes at least a decade to reach extraction stage but SLL is on the way to starting it in eight years, with just two more years now needed to engineer and build the mine.
Part of this unstoppable success is down to Bacanora’s joint venture partner, Ganfeng Lithium. Chinese Ganfeng is one of the world’s largest and most successful lithium producers that brings a lot of experience to the table says Andrew Miller, product director at intelligence firm Benchmark Mineral Intelligence.
SLL considers itself fortunate that Ganfeng’s expertise covers almost all entry lithium extraction and the production supply chain. In China, lithium entities control nearly half of the global lithium production, but Ganfeng seems comfortable enough to act alone. However, elsewhere it prefers to partner up, Secker says.

Bacanora is a local partner – it used to be listed in Canada as well as the UK but is now 100 per cent British. “We fit into [Ganfeng’s] expansion plan,” Secker says. Ganfeng entered a 22.5 per cent joint venture with Bacanora and committed to engineering the open pit mine.
The Mexican government were convinced to give this private joint venture a chance, and Covid-19 only had a subdued effect – Secker estimates the pandemic only delays the project timeline by about five to six months. Before the pandemic hit, Ganfeng’s management planned to wait to engineer the mine until after the Chinese New Year.
Mexico is largely a newcomer to lithium mining. This puts it in a weaker position, some say. But Benchmark Mineral Intelligence’s Miller says two SLL partners bring so much of their own longstanding expertise – especially Ganfeng – and contacts to the table that problems in the mining itself are unlikely.

Yet E&T found that concerns over the mining are the least of Bacanora’s worries. Mexico’s powerful drug cartels and nascent violence are a reasonable cause for concern; they could jeopardise the entire endeavour. For drug cartels to pivot into lithium trading is not entirely unfeasible, though other scenarios are more likely as mines are increasingly under attack by violent groups and organised crime, E&T learned. Security experts say mine owners must prepare for theft of valuable equipment, and extortion and kidnapping of workers.
Bacanora’s remote location may make it a desirable target for cartels. Its open-pit mine will be in a secluded spot around 11km away from a small town called Bacadehuachi, which has fewer than 1,380 inhabitants. There is lots of violence and trafficking near the US border and the mine is only 170km south of the border into Arizona. Alejandro Hope, a Mexican-based security expert, adds that state authorities have little in the way of resources to provide protection. Analysists at intelligence outfit BNamericas, covering Latin America, agree and say that Sonora has an uncomfortable history in mining robberies. Hope says the chances of Bacanora being subjected to extortion are not theoretical: “I dare to say it is even likely that the Sonora mine will be targeted.”

Faced with this reality, Secker says he doubts the cartels are interested in his mining product; previous mining thefts mainly focused on gold or silver. Yet cartels don’t shy away from experimentation. In April, a carefully planned attack involving a Cessna 206 aircraft was carried out on a mine in Sonora’s west where thieves stole gold and silver alloy from the Los Mulatos mine in Sahuaripa. Reports said the operation took only minutes. Last year’s doré bar theft of items worth between $6m and $8m, at the Noche Buena mine in the west of Sonora, was one of the biggest heists to be carried out in years.
Drug cartels are not short in ambition and sophistication, as Tom Wainwright, editor at the Economist and ex-Mexico correspondent, knows. He wrote a book a few years ago about Mexican drug cartels and their increased trend towards diversification into non-drug-related business areas. If cartels can figure out how to find experts to advise on drilling into gasoline pipes that stretch across to America and trade it on the black market, it’s worth considering the possibility that they would be interested in the SLL mining project.
Alongside this, there are other sectors that local cartels have broken into. Earlier in the year, news reports said Mexican drug cartels started trading avocados in Mexico’s south.
Security expert Hope explains that there are various ways for cartels to make trouble for SLL. Organised crime and irregular armed groups can charge protection money and threaten to hold up construction efforts by, for example, blocking roads. Many mining companies would openly liaise with organised crime groups; they wouldn’t even stop to target international mining companies, Hope says.
One of the most audacious examples of cartels moving away from drug trafficking is the trading of such commodities as iron ore. Around 2013 and 2014, such techniques reached a palpable peak when the military ceased control of Lazaro Cardenas, Mexico’s largest seaport. The government order was to strike after one legendary cartel earned more money from trades going through the port than from the drug business itself. La Familia and The Knights Templar cartels were diversifying into the mining business, Bosworth says. The military campaign at the port somewhat backfired, he argues. It cost a fortune and, despite making the port safer, it failed to ensure safety in the rest of the Michoacán state and created smaller, potentially more violent groups.

A similar thing may happen in Sonora. Since the takedown of Chapo Guzman, groups that were more tightly controlled by the active north Sinaloa cartel suddenly splintered away into smaller independent groups. They would now roam freely in the state and, as such, are more violent as they look for new business. These off-shoots usually don’t attack each other. Yet Sinaloa’s lack of top-down control became more dangerous as they looked for alternative ways to make money from extortion and violence, Bosworth says.
https://preview.redd.it/pw52d6ip43p51.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50b5b0f72827f71060ecd00c325970a3eb66f9c8
E&T’s analysis checked Bacanora’s feasibility study from 2018 – a 261-page document – for any hints that security was part of the assessment. It wasn’t. CEO Secker says it should already have been part of the due diligence process when his company raised equity in the UK: “It [security] never had any impact on what we do,” he says, adding that his company operated in the country for the past 10 years and never had trouble with extortion or anything like it. To date, it invested $50m-60m in Mexico.
Security experts caution against taking these new developments lightly. The whole company must be considered; upper management of a mining company in Mexico may not even know it leaks money to a drug cartel, Wainwright says. He once interviewed a person familiar with the matter and learnt that extortion at the local-regional-manager level failed to alert upper management of a Mexican company in an international case. The source said the firm paid money to the local cartel for years without realising and it only came out because the regional manager left and the affair was exposed.
Secker explains that the south of the country is more violent than the north. “If you were in southern Mexico, states like Guerrero, you would probably be more concerned, but not where we are operating.” But crime is growing. In recent regional homicide data, E&T found that the north grew increasingly lawless; with Sonora’s homicide rate jumping by 38 per cent between 2019 and 2020 to 42 per 100,000 people, it is now comparable with other violent southern states. The Mexican regional average, for instance, is around 25 per 100,000. Authorities are less able to control the violence, experts say.
The US Department of State Travel Advisory thinks Mexico is at level 2 (‘exercise increased caution due to crime and kidnapping’) on the travel advisory scale. For Sonora, which is at level 3, it recommends to ‘reconsider traveling due to crime’.
Monthly statistics on crime from the Secretariado Ejecutivo del Sistema Nacional de Seguridad Pública suggests for Sonora that rates for extortions, car robbery with violence and homicides were all rising. Last May, its kidnapping rate jumped to 21 instances, comparable to the most violent places in the whole of Mexico.
Some hope new officials may improve the state’s security situation and turn things around. Mexico’s first secretary of security and civilian protection, Alfonso Durazo, was born and raised in Sonora and may have some compassion for the cause. Durazo wants to become governor of Sonora but, after a tragic shooting last November, the odds are stacked against him. Three women and six children, who were dual US-Mexican Mormons, were executed in an ambush while travelling through a remote area of northern Mexico. The location of the shooting (see map) was less than 100km from the Sonora lithium mine.
E&T asked Secker what precautions the company takes, and how he would deter attacks and protect workers and equipment. “The mine site is fenced, and we always travel in convoys of two or three vehicles, but you would do that in any country, not just in Mexico. We take the normal security precautions for working in a remote site but nothing specific to cartels in Mexico,” Secker says.
The chance of an attack, however, may affect the mining business of a company. In 2018, Canadian mining company Pan American Silver Corp suffered a rise in crime and violence; along roads where it transported personnel and materials to its Dolores mine in the northern city of Madera, less than 100km away from the Sonora lithium mine, the company was attacked and robbed. It went on to announce plans to roll back operations in the country.
Other challenges
There is also the risk of corruption. Many companies can sing a song of Mexico’s endemic level of corruption. It includes graft among large international conglomerates, too. Emilio Lozoya, the former head of the state oil firm Pemex, said he accepted millions of dollars of bribes from Brazilian construction giant Odebrecht to help the 2012 election campaign of former President Enrique Peña Nieto. Mexico now faces one of the biggest criminal investigation probes in history. Bacanora’s executive team may be better positioned here as it has connections that reach into the Mexican government, E&T discovered. One of the firm’s non-executive directors, Dr Andres Antonius, previously held positions within the Government of Mexico as undersecretary for energy policy, and a staff member at the Agriculture Secretariat.
https://preview.redd.it/p93hz47s43p51.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae930881d51d23053a518602012f1ae45ba46d51
There are environmental concerns, too. Lithium mining has a lower footprint over brine extraction, which is positive (E&T produced an extensive investigation on firms in Chile). Yet, if performed incorrectly, it can have devastating effects on the local environment. Precedence dictates that this risk is feasible. For instance, according to 2018 reports, at a lithium mine in Tibet harmful toxins leaked into the environment and polluted a local river, killing animals and affecting locals.
Critics indicated that the River Bavispe runs through Sonora’s mining concession territory (see map). The feasibility study does mention the river basin, yet the mining site can still access groundwater. The report says that up to 10.7Mm3 is available annually from the Bacadéhuachi Aquifer. One concern is what happens to local water resources if the region hits a major drought? E&T found that Bacanora’s mining concessions are closely located to local towns including Granados and Nácori Chico.
https://preview.redd.it/yd14p9iu43p51.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b3ffe4a44fc97a509da01d8870b32eb3a3d9b7e
Secker is confident his company won’t mess up. It received all the necessary certificates, he says. The Sonora mine will be a zero-discharge operation and won’t leak a drop of water. It’s being recycled back into the ground.
Yet the stakes remain high and failure could mean more than just financial loss. Lithium experts say the world’s supply is on the verge of failure. Bacanora’s project could diffuse some pressure, but not for the US. For the next couple of years at least, the US will not receive a single ounce of the precious lithium from the Mexican mine. The deal has already been signed: Ganfeng in China will take half of the mined volume while the other half goes to Japan, where a leading trading company called Hanwa will process it.
It raises concerns that foreign companies could exploit Mexico’s resources and leave it in a poorer state. It happened with international conglomerates in Africa, though not for lithium but other minerals. A 2017 report by Global Justice Now found that much more wealth is leaving the world’s most impoverished continent than entering it.
Another hurdle to overcome is distance. Having to ship lithium halfway around the world isn’t ideal, experts say, and lithium firms are increasingly coming under environmental pressure. Consumers and other parts of the supply chain demand lithium miners to optimise operations and reduce the carbon impact of their transport. Shipping lithium carbonate more than 12,000km from the port of Guaymas to China, or the 11,000km to Japan, could add substantially to carbon emissions. Annually, the Bacanora plans to ship 35,000 tonnes of lithium carbonate by 2026/2027, when it reaches stage two of its agreement. This may cause between 7,300 and 13,400 tonnes in CO2 emissions per annum, according to E&T calculations. Benchmark Mineral Intelligence’s Miller says “it doesn’t necessarily make economic or technical sense to be shipping refined lithium chemicals in from China into the US or EU markets when you could locate some of that production closer to the end market”.
For the US to miss out on the deal has other effects. The country is under pressure to get lithium for its nascent EV and battery sector from somewhere else; it is developing its own lithium sources, but will always be dependent on other countries and – historically – has only accounted for 5 per cent of global lithium production, mainly from brine.
Bacanora’s agreement to exclude Mexico’s neighbouring country may still make waves down the road. America leadership has time to contemplate a better trade relationship with Mexico, and has good reason to do so, with some saying that America’s lithium demand may double or even triple by 2030. Meanwhile, Bacanora prudently avoids being caught in the middle of the US-Mexican trade war that President Donald Trump waged fiercely. A Joe Biden presidency seems more open for cooperating with Mexico. In the long-term it could lead “from Mexico being a security threat, which is how the Trump administration views it, to Mexico being a partner”, Miller says.
Mexico’s future seems bright and state officials have high hopes. Francisco Quiroga, undersecretary for mining, named investors from at least five countries who have expressed interest in Mexico’s lithium industry. Quiroga admits there are still several operational, commercial and financial challenges, while others, including Mexico’s Secretary for Environment Victor Toledo, see a problem in private companies running the show. Toledo reckons the lithium mine should be controlled by the government, but the President ruled against it. With government control, the mines could have sparked a domestic EV industry. The government thinks it doesn’t have the required resources.
https://preview.redd.it/22zkfztw43p51.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ee9fe0035e5fc634197e058af90bffcea42be08
Toledo received harsh criticism from Mexico’s largest union, which said nationalisation isn’t viable and will scare off foreign investors. One central question remains: if the government nationalised Sonora reserves and mined it itself, would it invest more to keep security high and workers safe? After all, it knows its violent groups better than foreign companies. Without guidance, Mexico’s private lithium extractors may have to learn from other countries – Bolivia, for example, with the largest lithium resources of 21 million tonnes, also struggles with safety and extortion.
Bacanora’s CEO Secker is convinced there won’t be any problems: “We had never anyone shot on our site and we don’t intend to.” But better safe than sorry. After the McEwen Mining refinery was robbed by a Mexican cartel in the Sinaloa state in 2015, Rob McEwen, CEO of the Canadian mining company, regretted how lightly he took the threat of the cartel business.
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2020.09.20 05:09 jw_mentions /r/QAnonCasualties - "My wife is a believer and I am contemplating divorce"

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EDIT: As of Sun Sep 20 18:29:12 UTC 2020, the post is at [60pts3c]

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Submission My wife is a believer and I am contemplating divorce
Comments My wife is a believer and I am contemplating divorce
Author SimplyChuckles
Subreddit /QAnonCasualties
Posted On Fri Sep 18 18:30:03 UTC 2020
Score 60 as of Sun Sep 20 18:29:12 UTC 2020
Total Comments 27

Post Body:

TLDR: My wife follows Q, only brings it up occasionally since our first major blow-outs over it at the beginning of corona-virus. We have had ~4 arguments over Q since we kind of mutually decided not to bring it up. She usually is the one to bring it up via, "hey look at this amazing thing I saw about [insert conspiracy here]." Today it was the California fires and I think I came to the conclusion that I don't know if I want to be married to her anymore. Has anyone else here divorced over QAnon/Covid shit?
My wife (30F) has bought into Qanon hook line and sinker due to the fact that our life coach (who had a great impact on her during a rough time) got her mixed up in it. At the time we met this lady my wife and I were dealing with my recovery process and my relapses' impact on our marriage. She had a successful coaching program, which for all intents and purposes did help us both out a lot. She played a pivotal role in our exit from our religious upbringing (basically it was a cult) as she encouraged us to look beyond our shallow belief and question what we thought we knew.
There, however, were some red flags that I kind of dismissed. A time or two she mentioned the illuminati with my wife or me, she spoke of herself in a very grandiose way. She claimed to be self-studied and so smart because she questions EVERYTHING. I didn't realize it much, but my wife kind of really followed her advice a lot. We left one cult and it felt like my wife replaced it with this woman.
Fast forward a year or so to fall of 2019 and she (our coach) was starting to make claims on FB about 5g and aliens and weird shit. Always asking people to do their research, like all conspiracy theorists do because they don't want to post their sources. I always wanted to refute her with the REAL evidence, but then my mind went back to when I was religious and even when presented with evidence I couldn't be turned, so I would delete the half-started posts that I was making. I eventually just had to mute her from my feed.
Well, my wife followed her like a semi-religious leader, like this lady is some sort of "lightworker", "light leader", "healer" (oh god I hate those terms). It's like my wife switched from one cult to another.
Fast forward again to March of this year and she starts spouting all this shit about QAnon. In the beginning I was like, okay, sure. You believe your stuff and I'll believe mine, I love you enough and am confident enough in myself to not be shaken by your wild beliefs. I sometimes offer my side but then I'm told I'm getting defensive (and sometimes I do because conspiracies grind my gears) and then when "defensive" comes out she says I'm not thinking for myself or I'm just brainwashed by the media.
We had a number of fights at the beginning until it seems we just mutually, and without verbally saying it, pushed Q under the rug, like we unconsciously know it brings shit up so neither of us discuss it. Except for every now and then she does and it just becomes a wedge again. This has happened maybe four times since June when we just both decided not to discuss shit. Each time it comes up she's like, "but what if this stuff IS going on? i'm just exploring my curiosity and what might be, I'm not just accepting the narrative of the MSM." It doesn't seem like she's even remotely interested in looking up counter arguments against Qanon because it comes from the MSM or that if it's in a science journal then that's just what I was told to believe.
Today she brings up the fires in California and shows a video of what might be a directed energy weapon setting houses on fire in a neighborhood. The footage looks very questionable to me and I bring it up that it's probably CGI. She mentions that the CIA admits to researching this stuff and yeah they are because I used to work in defense (not on those projects, but companies that do research on it). Her evidence is the photos of the homes burnt but intact trees surrounding them. I tell her that homes have extremely dry materials in them and trees have too much water for them to burn as quickly as homes do but it seems she's not interested in that idea.
Today I think I had my last straw with this. She told me I was acting childish and talking down to her about it. (Maybe I was? I don't know I get so emotional too when she brings this shit up. I like to think that I don't "mansplain" things to her, at the same time I know my patriarchal religious upbringing can still have an effect on this.) Today I contemplated divorce heavily. However, I don't know if I'm being irrational here because she is incredibly kind and such a great human and she cares deeply. She hasn't raged at me for not believing; we've both been defensive when it's come up, but not to the point of yelling, but the defensiveness has been a chicken-egg where afterwards we don't know put up walls first.
Ultimately I need to figure it out for myself if it's worth my sanity or if she will come around. I've really to weigh her positives against my mental health when these' things come up. Have any of you resolved it with your partner still believing? Have any of you divorced because of it?

Related Comments (3):

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Author Cyberrebel9
Posted On Fri Sep 18 21:30:20 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sun Sep 20 18:29:12 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
I'm happy to have my freedom my fellow heathen! And I am happy to know you escaped that life too. On the exJW subreddit they say the exMormons are our reddit cousins. So cousin, there is nothing but bright futures ahead of us! This qanon thing is a huge kick in the side but regardless you have done the hardest thing and escaped a high control group. A complete stranger on reddit is proud of you and so are many others. I hope the book helps and I think the social media fast is a great idea. If she can just get a break from the influence of qanon you will have the best opportunity to reach her. Best of luck, cousin!
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Author SimplyChuckles
Posted On Fri Sep 18 21:52:10 UTC 2020
Score 3 as of Sun Sep 20 18:29:12 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
:D Ha! Reddit cousins, love it! Yeah, back before I left that subreddit I noticed talk about that, how exmos would go over to exJW and be like, "yeah they had it just a bad, but different!" Which is funny because all growing up I thought that the JWs were just this weird off-shoot protestant Christian religion...then just before I left the Mormon church I started feeling Mormonism as being weird, now I'm just like all religion is weird. Good luck to you too, cous!
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Author Cyberrebel9
Posted On Fri Sep 18 20:37:01 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Sun Sep 20 18:29:12 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 5
Body link
I was formerly in a religious cult as well. I was a JW. I can completely empathize with where she is coming from. Its very easy to fall into things like Qanon when you leave that setting since there is a vacuum of belief once you leave a religious setting like that. It would have been easy for me to just shove myself into some new belief or teacher to try and fill that hole. It sucks to be lost. My heart breaks that you and your kids have to be exposed to another controlling group (qanon). As others have suggested can you encourage her to try to fill that "belief vacuum" with something else? Like a hobby or a skill? Can you separate her from the people who push her interest into qanon? What helped me to wake up from my religious cult was reading "Combating Cult Mind Control: The Guide to Protection, Rescue and Recovery from Destructive Cults" by Stephen hassan. He also has another book where he addresses the Qanon issue specifically. I think it's called cult of Trump or something.. Since you guys have an interesting in leaving cults you might be able to get her to at least read the first book and then if it opens her mind enough she may be interested in his book on qanon.
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2020.09.19 15:14 jw_mentions /r/comics - "Door to Door"

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EDIT: As of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020, the post is at [17471pts16c]

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Submission Door to Door
Comments Door to Door
Author ArtThenMusic
Subreddit /comics
Posted On Fri Sep 18 14:40:45 UTC 2020
Score 17471 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Total Comments 104

Post Body:

n/a - not a self post

Related Comments (16):

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Author dannyjdruce
Posted On Sun Sep 20 07:23:54 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
I was a JW. I saw all of that. I didn't hate not celebrating Christmas or birthdays and I felt genuinely loved in the organisation but it still was cruel. When I left no one said that they hated me or despised me but that is because nobody reached out to me. The truth is that getting a blood transfusion as a baptized JW will get you dissociated from all of your friends in the religion. Maybe people don't hate you, but they definitely can't talk to you. And I disagree on the not saying that you sinned part. Every JW will tell you that getting a blood transfusion is a sin.
JWs are great people, they have shown me so much love. I'm not attacking JWs, I'm attacking the system that alienates those who disagree with them.
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Author GameEnded101
Posted On Sat Sep 19 21:33:27 UTC 2020
Score 2 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
I'm also a JW :)
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Author ChiefR96
Posted On Sat Sep 19 06:12:16 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
I'm well aware I've been POMO for like 5 years and was stuck going for 19. After they release the Revised New World Translation I was done entirely mentally.
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Author muffinmonk
Posted On Fri Sep 18 19:37:33 UTC 2020
Score 4 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 9
Body link
Jehovah's witnesses don't believe you'd meet Jesus anyways. Only 144k get to go to the supposed heaven but it's not a paradise it's a job. You have to win the devout lottery to get chosen.
When you die you don't exist until unless God says it's time for the good to enjoy the new paradise on earth.
Edit: I know the joke is funny. Just wanted to give the fyi from a former JW
--- --- Notes
Author the-ac-man
Posted On Fri Sep 18 20:30:53 UTC 2020
Score 0 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 3
Body link
Instead of saying it's people like you that makes this world crap to live in what you should say is to people like that this is why we go door-to-door to help people learn the truth instead of belittling them jw.org
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Author dannyjdruce
Posted On Fri Sep 18 21:18:39 UTC 2020
Score -5 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 2
Body link
Honestly if JWs acted like they do amongst themselves when preaching this is pretty much what they would do. As a former member I can say that they are a cruel religion who will shun you if you get a blood transfusion even to save your life, who (much like the joke) hide child sexual abuse often when there aren't two witnesses to the crime within the religion, and who will also shun you if you speak out against them. It's no joke. Most people just hear about the door knocking as a joke and think they're silly, but have no idea of the cruelty within.
Edit: I over worded my comment a bit. JWs are really nice people but they as a group form a system of cruelty. They all think what they do is loving or helping to further god's purpose but it causes a lot of harm.
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Author itschikobrown
Posted On Fri Sep 18 21:19:09 UTC 2020
Score -6 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 8
Body link
When I was a kid my family used to be JW. We are not anymore. There was a story that apparently many “brothers” backed up of a “sister” that was an ex-cop. She used to do the door to door regularly. I guess once she and her partner got an extremely rude person answer the door, hostile and even smacked the pamphlet for them or something, well the “sister “ took out her gun and pointed it at the guy and made him apologize and pick up the pamphlet. She got expelled or censored, I don’t remember.
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Author iwasntlucid
Posted On Sat Sep 19 03:43:17 UTC 2020
Score -1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
Just FYI...JW's call each other brother and sister. It's Mormons who say elder so-and-so.
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Author GameEnded101
Posted On Sat Sep 19 21:56:11 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
Thats a good comeback for a Jehovah's witnesses, I think I'll use that more often! Lol
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Author LinkifyBot
Posted On Fri Sep 18 20:31:06 UTC 2020
Score -2 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
I found links in your comment that were not hyperlinked:
  • [jw.org](https://jw.org)
I did the honors for you.
delete information <3
--- --- Notes
Author GameEnded101
Posted On Sat Sep 19 21:49:29 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 1
Body link
You got it all wrong, when getting a blood transfusion and you're a Jehovah's Witness they don't hate you, they don't say you sin, they don't despise you and they will never despise you, a lot of people think that Jehovah's Witnesses are cruel and terrible but we're really not. I'm only 13 and you would think that I would hate being a Jehovah's Witness because I can't do birthday parties, I can't celebrate Christmas or any stuff like that but it's really not that bad there's so many friends you can talk to and it's not that strict either so please don't think bad about us because we're just trying to help :)
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Author gatorsthatsnecessary
Posted On Sat Sep 19 18:35:49 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
And even if jehovah witness, bet he'll never testify
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Author Jolteon0
Posted On Fri Sep 18 19:57:05 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 6
Body link
Wait, if only 144k go to heaven, why all the door knocking?
I understand why normal Christians would (Save at many as possible), but that argument don't work with JWs.
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Author ChiefR96
Posted On Fri Sep 18 22:23:34 UTC 2020
Score 6 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 5
Body link
Yeah likewise. My dad got in trouble with them just for carrying a gun in his work vehicle. Let alone while they're out in Service. Plus it's called being disfellowshipped or reproved if they don't kick you out all together.
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Author Jedzeke
Posted On Sat Sep 19 00:28:35 UTC 2020
Score 6 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
As an exJW, this made me laugh out loud.
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Author GameEnded101
Posted On Sat Sep 19 21:39:52 UTC 2020
Score 1 as of Sun Sep 20 14:38:57 UTC 2020
Conversation Size 0
Body link
Dang you're like whole Wikipedia lol ( I'm a Jehovah's Witness so I definitely know what you're talkin about 👌)
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